RDM is great

[Rongway]

What selfish main would ever desire their job to stagnate?

You say stagnation, I say stability. I don't need my job to change every two years. Just slap some traits on things to increase their potencies, their animations, and maybe their areas of effect or rates of activation, and I'll be happy. We have nineteen other jobs I can play if I want something different, maybe twenty or twenty-two in 7.x.

[Jirah]

You say stagnation, I say stability.

Honeyed words, but riddle me this. There are ways to enhance a job and retain its appeal, it’s been done numerous times RDM isn’t SMN where it needs to change to align with design Philosophy. You say “stability” but you can have it and have a enhanced job. It’s not yours and yours alone I’m sure many RDM would love a break from the never ending evolution skills and hollow follow up spells. RDM doesn’t need a rework, if that’s somehow crossed the threshold.

[Duskane]

Red mage game play is fine I doubt it'll ever see any significant change
they know people like RDM for its simplicity and will keep it like that and its fine
7.0 it'll probably just get some traits to give verfire/stone and jolt new animation some QoL and some more support and call it a day

[SaberMaxwell]

Red Mage game play has changed significantly if only just for the amount of options for synergy that having 100 mana of overhead as opposed to 40 gives us (not even discussing how much relative mana that actually is). Combined with 2 charges of Acceleration, Red Mage has something it generally didn't have over its rotation before: control.

Through Acceleration and swift, Red Mage now has control over its weave and move windows where before you only had swift. That control brings with it responsibility: you need to predict when you need what weave and move windows open ahead of time to not drift fleche or contre at all. Generally easy, just accel after the Melee combo, but now if you even swift you can use accel to put yourself back on track.

Having an entire extra combo's worth of overhead gives control over using melee. The Melee combo which is Red Mage's primary movement utility. Moreover the combo can be better aligned with bursts, and proper management leads to the ability to drop three combos in quick succession, most of them under burst.

I'm with Rongway on this topic for now. What SE has proved time and time again is that their reworks seldom if ever add anything of gameplay depth; rather, they often focus on flashiness. For better or worse, Summoner is a grand example of this, and so is Machinist.

I'd rather, if they felt that need, them create a fourth caster and channel their creativity there.

[Brandedblade]

THe biggest thing for me trying red mage with the new changes is the new acceleration. Once i got over the initial hurdle of "OH shit i pulled the boss trying to the old opener", I more or less fell in love with how i could bank it as a mobility tool with swiftcast (and the fact acelleration doesn't eat your dualcast proc). Being able to use it in AoE is a surprisingly welcome addition as well.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Honeyed words, but riddle me this. There are ways to enhance a job and retain its appeal, it’s been done numerous times RDM isn’t SMN where it needs to change to align with design Philosophy. You say “stability” but you can have it and have a enhanced job. It’s not yours and yours alone I’m sure many RDM would love a break from the never ending evolution skills and hollow follow up spells. RDM doesn’t need a rework, if that’s somehow crossed the threshold.

I continue to play RDM because it's the same as it ever was. But I'm safe in that regard because MCH is a sign that they won't change simple/popular jobs up much if ever.

[Jirah]

I continue to play RDM because it's the same as it ever was. But I'm safe in that regard because MCH is a sign that they won't change simple/popular jobs up much if ever.

Which in large is stagnation, why would you ever wish for jobs not be upgraded? People are this afraid of learning a job?

[Rongway]

Which in large is stagnation, why would you ever wish for jobs not be upgraded? People are this afraid of learning a job?

Upgrades are exactly what I did say would be okay. But I will never understand people's need for a job that is good to become different. If the job works, the people who play it and like it will play it because it works well and they like it. The people who play it and don't like it should play something else instead of calling for changes to a job that already works well.

[Archwizard]

But I will never understand people's need for a job that is good to become different.

I think we're on different wavelengths here. The central conceit of what you're saying is that we want the job to fundamentally change, when as we said, we'd just be happy to see some new tools that spice up the existing rotation, instead of more fire-and-forget attacks or reskins and clones on existing skills.

This could even come in the form of tools that reward us for things we essentially already do (like Paradox and Polyglot do for BLM), facilitate the existing playstyle in an exciting new way (such as, say, Manafication and Acceleration for us), or very slightly alter the main use-case of part of our rotation while leaving its core fundamentally intact (like Verfloly encouraging us to imbalance our Mana before the combo, without strictly changing how or why we build it).
This is notably why I used those two examples from BLM instead of, say, Fire IV actually changing their entire rotation top-down.

Example from the top of my head: "Pendulum charges" that generate each time your Black Mana overtakes White Mana or vice versa, spend them on a new GCD spell to accelerate getting to your burst combo. Just a reward for what we've already done since level 70.

I only comment because I feel it would be a waste to cap us off with yet another finisher fundamentally the same as the one before it for a, lemme check my notes here, third expansion in a row. I would want something about being level 100 to feel exciting and new compared to level 90, which I honestly don't get from Resolution and didn't even get from Scorch. And while you're right that the additions they make each expansion often focus on flashiness, if we don't see any actual effect on the playstyle -- something to make us ooh and ahh about something new, that we won't just say "Oh they reskinned Jolt again, is that all?" -- we'll be asking what the point even is when they pull out the New Job Actions trailer.

To discredit any verbal want for exactly what they always use to appeal to veteran players, just reads as very knee-jerk refusal for any change. Hence Jirah's argument about job stagnation.

[Azuri]

The problem with constantly adding "something exciting and new" is that at a certain point you really do have to stop before you start making the jobs worse. We are four expansion in and some jobs already feel pretty "complete". And I'm willing to claim that Red Mage is at that point - it's a very well designed job. ShB Red Mage had one glaring weakness - AoE - and it was adressed thoroughly in EW.

I don't see much you can do without upsetting the balance of current RDM. Ading another inconsequential "charge" that plays itself to the gauge isn't "new and exciting" - it's the very definition of bloat for the sake of bloat.