On Venat's Role in the Story

[Rulakir]

... I wonder if that's evidence that Hydaelyn does temper/influence people?

Influence, absolutely. My argument during the whole debate as to whether or not Hydaelyn tempers was that it ultimately didn't matter because she is in your face as soon as the Echo is awakened and no one along the way ever questions whether this is a good or bad thing, in fact, the Scions have historically been quite zealous when it came to Hydaelyn and so you, the WoL, were barraged with what a blessing it was. The fact that nobody had a problem with Hydaelyn telling Minfilia to kill herself or her using her as a vessel was particularly unsettling to me. My perspective was always that the WoL was being groomed and, frankly, that didn't change with the EW narrative.

[YianKutku]

If you want to dismiss the EE, feel free to do so. I don't particularly care one way or another, as ultimately however they explain it, as Veloran pointed out, the ancients do nonetheless exhibit an ability to wield this power. I was linking the source because a lot of people are unaware that the EE had in fact covered the topic.

The EE also said Gaius is dead.

When this was pointed out, I believe there were a lot of posts going "oh, but the Encyclopedia Eorzea was written from a diegetic perspective, so of course they'll get lots of things wrong."

[Lyth]

...

Far be it for me to speak out against gospel texts like the EE, but I rather like the fact that we have different cultures each with their own terminology and take on how the natural laws work, and that they're enlightened enough to learn from each other. Perhaps the next periodical that we'll peruse will be something from Meracydia, or the New World.

As for Ancients using limit breaks, I do note that Emet uses the line 'Mine is the Aether!' when using LB1 as a Black Mage. (I'd be interested to see what Venat does, but I don't have an adequately leveled healer). So it's probably not as cut and dry as 'All limit break techniques are Aether and Aether alone' or 'All limit break techniques are Dynamis and Dynamis alone'. Does someone like Emet, living in a blissfully perfect world, ever really get pushed to the brink?

The critical conversation, as you probably remember, is in 'Lives Apart'. A deficit in Aether just makes it easier or more likely that you can interact with Dynamis, but the energy is always there just the same. An entelechy is an entity that can actually realize/manifest its potential.

The description reminded me as being similar to how Gravity is the strongest force that we encounter despite being the weakest of the four interactions. The Ancients are still subject to Dynamis to a degree, they're just much less sensitive to it and much less influenced by it due to a high Aetheric density. It's like trying to assess the effect of Gravity on a ball bearing in a room full of magnets.

Bottom line is, if you're hoping to have a hard and fast law that lets you lump everything into distinct categories of Aether vs. Dynamis, I don't think that we're able to do that at this point. I'm sure that we'll learn more details on it as we go exploring Pandaemonium with Elidibus. He's bound to draw his Warrior of Light inspirations from somewhere.

[vormela]

I can't follow the direction this thread has gone but Venat is the ultimate parent, knowingly bringing her children into a world that is dangerous, cruel, but also beautiful. And eventually letting them go on their own.

After seeing Meteion, learning about her report, and tagging her, I think it cemented her convictions that she had done the right thing, even without hearing our character's answer.

I am still not sure how clear she was on dynamis and the trajectory of nations when she first attacked the convocation. But whatever she did led to the people currently alive, which is enough justification and worth not sacrificing.

I haven't been a parent but I think parents may have some insight on Venat that we are lacking. I never went that route and so her motives aren't as relatable to me, but at least I have some awareness of my intellectual failings and lack of imagination.

[sidurgu-12]

I can't follow the direction this thread has gone but Venat is the ultimate parent, knowingly bringing her children into a world that is dangerous, cruel, but also beautiful. And eventually letting them go on their own.

After seeing Meteion, learning about her report, and tagging her, I think it cemented her convictions that she had done the right thing, even without hearing our character's answer.

I am still not sure how clear she was on dynamis and the trajectory of nations when she first attacked the convocation. But whatever she did led to the people currently alive, which is enough justification and worth not sacrificing.

I haven't been a parent but I think parents may have some insight on Venat that we are lacking. I never went that route and so her motives aren't as relatable to me, but at least I have some awareness of my intellectual failings and lack of imagination.

things can get..... confusing sometimes.

from what i gathered she didn't know a lot about dynamis besides what hermes told her so a lot of what she did was based on faith and trust.

[Alleo]

We will almost certainly see some exploration into what Azem was up to, my point however is that 10 years of plot is going to leave loose threads. Claiming it to be bad writing or a failure of the writing strikes me as unfair, especially when you also consider the fact that they can’t write Azem as a clearly defined character due to the their nature in the story. I don’t think we absolutely need an explanation, unlike with other story beats.

I would see no problem with them writing a version of Azem. After all we may share the soul but we are still different people. Just like Ardbert was not a perfect clone of us either. And they are already giving our WoL their own character...after all my WoL would not have risked her life fighting Zenos.

[MikkoAkure]

I would see no problem with them writing a version of Azem. After all we may share the soul but we are still different people. Just like Ardbert was not a perfect clone of us either. And they are already giving our WoL their own character...after all my WoL would not have risked her life fighting Zenos.

I can see them adding more information on Azem like what we had in Tales from the Shadows, but they will never be introduced as a character you can interact with.

If you play through the MSQ, at least as a Hyur, you're told that you look exactly like Azem. Introducing a character that looks like you but doesn't act like how you believe you should wouldn't go down very well and we already saw on the GD forums how well the Zenos bodyswap was received.

The other problem would be "what would Azem look like if your character isn't Hyur or Elezen?". All of the Ancients are just Elezen with Hyur ears. But how would you depict an Azem if the WoL is an Au Ra? Or worse yet, if they're a Hrothgar? None of the Ancients have fantasy skin tones so that already means the game would somehow need to pick a skin tone for your version of Azem if you're blue, green, or red.

In the end, while I'm fine with Azem being a different personality than my WoL, I like the mystery of them better than I would probably like the actual introduction of them. I feel like I get more out of Azem as a character who is just off-screen who is alluded to and seen through the lens of other characters rather than if Azem came out in the flesh and started doing Azem things.

[nanatotempole]

I suspect the short answer is:

1) The writers decided to go all in that she was good. This meant having to justify an unjustifiable act, which required a lot of convoluted writing to excuse.
2) They wanted a closed time loop so badly they were willing to sacrifice whatever it took whether it be logic or story consistency.

3rd possibility.
3) Venat retaining her memory was a revision.

I wish they made her forget. She could have sensed her magic in the far reaches, and noticed Argos behaving strangely Lassie-style. Hermes could have been appalled at the 2nd sacrifice and helped her summon Hydaelyn to bind Zodiark. Instead of purposefully sundering us, it could have been a bi-product as it was originally stated, or Hermes could have suspected a Dynamis cause, and suggested the sundering himself. If Hermes' deal was always changing the purpose of the civilization, and if he legit cared about all life, that would be an interesting temporary heel-turn.

[Katie_Kitty]

That's nice dear.

[RoroCookies]

I can't follow the direction this thread has gone but Venat is the ultimate parent, knowingly bringing her children into a world that is dangerous, cruel, but also beautiful. And eventually letting them go on their own.

After seeing Meteion, learning about her report, and tagging her, I think it cemented her convictions that she had done the right thing, even without hearing our character's answer.

I am still not sure how clear she was on dynamis and the trajectory of nations when she first attacked the convocation. But whatever she did led to the people currently alive, which is enough justification and worth not sacrificing.

I haven't been a parent but I think parents may have some insight on Venat that we are lacking. I never went that route and so her motives aren't as relatable to me, but at least I have some awareness of my intellectual failings and lack of imagination.

Imo I don’t think Venat would make a good parent. I see the ancients similarly to toddlers. Not exactly but here’s an example. Toddlers cry over simple things like when they drop their ice cream cone or something. In that moment, that is the worse thing that could happen to that toddler in their entire short life so far, so of course the child is going to cry and scream about. In a sense the ancients never have to deal with a world ending event that causes all sorts of misery, so of course their reaction is going to be an extreme one. Instead of trying to soothe them down and being patient with the harsh reality of the situation, Venat sunders them, like slapping the crying child as a solution.
Like other people had said, I don’t think the ancients were ever given a fair chance in properly dealing with the situation. This is the first time most if not all had to witness losing loved ones instantly in a brutal fashion instead of the usually peaceful deaths.