*Spoilers* Anyone feel joining Emet would have been better

[KizuyaKatogami]

Also, nowhere is is stated that it would only be a portion" of the new life. By Emet's own accounts anything new was going to go. the stuff they restored with the second was the planets life, but the new life they didn't expect was going to be what they sacrificed.

But EW actually goes into this a bit, Emet is horrified at the idea that they would just keep going, he explicitly compares trying to bring back people who willingly made the sacrifice as disrespectful to them and is furious at the idea.

I’d recommend doing some research before stating such things as facts when they aren’t. Direct quote:
“Time would pass, and eventually life would flourish again. They reconsidered the best way for humanity to continue their guardianship of this star once that time came.
ヒュトロダエウス : 十四人委員会の出した結論は、こうだ。
The Council of Fourteen presented this conclusion.
世界を育み、それが再び十分に満ち足りたときに、
いくらかの生命をゾディアークに捧げる……。
That when the time was ripe, and the world bountiful with life, they would sacrifice a portion of it to Zodiark...”

[Atamis]

I don't think Emet and gang had a good plan of action. I can understand where they were coming from for their end goal. but the course to get there was terrible.
Rejoining the shards on the other hand is something I could see helping them with, but not at the expense of everyone else. I expect that to be a plot point going forward since I would assume without Hydaelyn around the sundering should fade in time unless magic just lasts forever even without the source maintaining it.

[Zoliru]

At the end of the day, the game didn't commit to the idea that what is lost cannot be brought back. The Scions died - multiple times, in some cases - and yet were allowed to return. The Unsundered had the means to bring back their own people and sought to do as much only to be stopped by the Sundered.

And dont forget Graha and ironworks literally going back in time to bring back the WoL, oh wait if the Ascians did that they would be "bad".

Also different subject but I was so utterly disappointed when nobody died, a perfect good ending for the good guys is so boring and unimpactful but it became clear once everyone started sacrificing themselves that they wouldnt dare make the sacrifices permanent, it would be an interesting story with a lot of cost, the WoL would have won, but at what cost, he would have lost all the Scions and that would be an interesting ending.

This may be due to tempering.

The lopporites specifically suggest that if we were to summon an entity such as Zodiarc, we would only feel a slight tug. So the tempering sounds to be extremely weak even at the size of zodiarc like beings.

So this whole tempering thing feels overplayed, especially since it was clear Emet Selch was not what we would usually consider tempered

[Jandor]

This may be due to tempering. I don't think it was still specifically explained as to WHY/ (and who decided that) they were tempered. The Lopprites were kinda like "oh Glenda the Good Witch" knows how to summon better (sorry, it's just the way that was waived in the story line was kinda like...really??? People loved theorizing on that).

So personally hoping they actually expand on that rather than the MSQ explanation.

I personally suspect the Loporrites were possibly underselling it a tad, maybe in order to not seem rude.

Not so much that Zodiark tempering isn't a big deal, more like 'the weak sauce primals you lot can muster aren't going to be a problem, but I don't really want to say that...'

[Cilia]

Haha... no. No.

Even leaving out the question of whether or not the Rejoinings, then omniciding the remaining Source mortals to turn them back into Ancients, and then going with the "Universal Aether Farm for Zodiark" plan was acceptable (no, full Rejoining is not the final phase of the plan), the fact is that Zodiark was by no means a permanent solution. Either Meteion's dynamis would have eventually grown too strong for him to repel, or the Ancients would achieve the perfection they sought and damn themselves to one of the calamities seen in Ultima Thule (either the Ea or the goat people killing themselves - just replace Ra-la with Zodiark).

While I can't agree the Sundering was right (and Hydaelyn herself says as much - it was more along the lines of a necessary evil to defeat Meteion), the fact is people need something to strive toward to give their life meaning. Let's assume the Ancients are resurrected and create a perfect ecosystem (which seems to have been their goal based on Elpis); what then?

[Jandor]

And dont forget Graha and ironworks literally going back in time to bring back the WoL, oh wait if the Ascians did that they would be "bad".

Yes, it would be bad.

A portion of the good guys being hypocrites doesn't make the bad guys right.

[Slatersev]

And dont forget Graha and ironworks literally going back in time to bring back the WoL, oh wait if the Ascians did that they would be "bad".

Also different subject but I was so utterly disappointed when nobody died, a perfect good ending for the good guys is so boring and unimpactful but it became clear once everyone started sacrificing themselves that they wouldnt dare make the sacrifices permanent, it would be an interesting story with a lot of cost, the WoL would have won, but at what cost, he would have lost all the Scions and that would be an interesting ending.


The lopporites specifically suggest that if we were to summon an entity such as Zodiarc, we would only feel a slight tug. So the tempering sounds to be extremely weak even at the size of zodiarc like beings.

So this whole tempering thing feels overplayed, especially since it was clear Emet Selch was not what we would usually consider tempered

Graha and the Ironworks did that with full support from those who remained. In fact its treated like there societies swan song.

Which is the equivalent to the first sacrifice to Zodiark, which was made with everyone's consent.

Its what the Convocation planned to do after that made others act against them. When they decided they could offer up anyone they felt like without there consent.

[Denishia]

That the Future Ironworks plan also restored another full Shard's worth of lives and future lives is the point in their favor against the sacrificing their present to save the past (which is something I find abhorrent and among the reasons why 'joining Emet/Ascians' was never a desire I remotely considered.) But then, I find two Sundered lives to have more value, even if they are mortal and have more chance for suffering, than one Unsundered. It is the possibilities of two instead of one for the way I judge my mental arithmetic for fictional characters. Fourteen Shards of 'lesser life' is greater than one singular 'paradise'. More chances to make friends, more adventures. Had G'raha only gone into the past to save the WoL, that would be unforgiveable. But he worked to save the First. And thus I will not hate him for it- though the side story revealing that the alternative future timeline survived made me happier than any of the other side stories released that year.

[EaraGrace]

I feel as if people are confusing the actual moral question at play with the SHB story. The question isn’t whether people would and are justified in trying to bring back friends, but how far you’re willing to go or are justified in going.

How many people are you willing to sacrifice to bring them back?

How much of the future will you give up for the past?

That’s the question being asked. Making it the former feels incredibly disconnected from the actual story itself and what was being explored, and frankly is a misreading of the text.

[Shuuli]

This is incorrect. The first set of sacrifices was to stop the final days yes. Then the second set of sacrifices, which they went through with, was to bring life back to the planet. It wasn’t that there was chaos, it was that there was very little life left. It was never implied that it was all to keep her in check, as far as we know that was already a done deal. The third set of sacrifices was to bring back their loved ones using a portion of the new life that sprouted up from the second set of sacrifices and that was it.

How would it be incorrect. This is the exact line IN the game: "Yet oh how the star had suffered. So many species lost. The land was blighted, the waters poisoned, and even the wind had ceased to blow.
Once more did our people give of themselves to Zodiark. Another half of our race sacrificed to cleanse the world, to ensure that trees and grasses and myraid tiny lives would sprout and grow and flourish. The cycle of life had begun anew, and we reconsidered the means by which we might protect it."

I don't think I said that it was implied that Zodiark was summoned to keep her in check, I said that this is what he was actually doing even if his summoners did not know about it.

The whole argument of this thread is "by knowing what you know NOW, would you rather have joined Emet". And by knowing what we know now. My answer is no, because it would have been just a delayed doom for us. And I kinda like my character alive.