Just a interesting artcile about FFXI (and XIV)

[Coglin]

Dude. Dude. DUDE. In all seriousness, you're toppling your own argument with the points you're bringing up. You say THM is best for Ifrit; Archer's best for Moogle, etc. OK, do you really need an NM for every job out there to say that they're balanced? The strengths are proven in the abilities found in the jobs, their exclusives, and NOT NOT NOT from the situations they get involved in.

He isn't "toppling" anything. Although the triple "dude" with one capitalized seems a bit toppling.

Anyway

If you read your own post you see where you supported his point. if you notice the classes your mentioning as well are the ranged classes. Thats where the majority of the discussion of balance, intentional or unintentional, is based.

Your LNC reference was a little on the stupid side. The CoN reference was pointlessly redundent due to the fact that we hae no other healing class, and only CON can utilize the "trait" for healing. PGL would seem more fitting to be made reference to there evasion, as I see it MRD and GLA by far out "endure" PGL.

Anyway. Like it or not, due to CON/THM/ARC ranged abilities, and the manner in which the raids are designed at this point, gives them a great advantage. Do we need an NM for every job, no, of coarse not. One that DOESN"T greatly favor the the ability to stay at a ranged distance, on the other hand.

Fixed for accuracy. You can only do so much in terms of balance without making everyone the exact same.

We are not discussing all MMO's. Also, balancing is a far greater issue in FFXIV in my experience, then is it in other MMOs.

[Xoo]

You sir, Coglin, have not made one bit of sense in your post. Neither have you spelled 8/10 words correctly. All I took from it was that Thaumaturge and Archer are ranged attackers. The rest is wrought full of opinion.

[Kyri]

(Posting as Kaetara Sagitta)

I have to agree with Xoo. And I have to ask Benediction why, in the name of all that is holy, should a SMN healer be as effective as a RDM healer, or a SCH healer, or a WHM healer? First off, SMN has no native curing skill apart from what they can manage with their Blood Pacts. Therefore, taking in context from a Lv75 cap, why do you think for any reason that a Lv37 WHM should perform healing duties as well as a Lv75 RDM? If they could, THAT would be unbalanced.

Every job should have some sense of self identity that sets them apart from other similar jobs. If all Marauders and Pugilists and Lancers were alike, then what incentive is there for a player to level one over the other except for aesthetic appeal? Every job needs to have strengths to make them appealing, and weaknesses to offset their strengths that make other jobs appealing.

Also, Xoo is making the most valid point: Many different party schemes can work for things like Ifrit and Moogle, but the players have restricted it to where the easy way is the only right way. People won't try alternative setups that use Pugilists and such because the nuances of the fights make them less appealing and more troublesome. Rather than allow the Pugilists and such to face those obstacles and try to surmount them, they tell the Pugilists and such that they need to level an entirely different job to receive an invite. This isn't the game's fault. It's the players that make those "house rules".

Why should a Pugilist or Marauder perform as well at range as an Archer? What point then would there be to play Archer?

[Rydin]

(Posting as Kaetara Sagitta)

I have to agree with Xoo. And I have to ask Benediction why, in the name of all that is holy, should a SMN healer be as effective as a RDM healer, or a SCH healer, or a WHM healer? First off, SMN has no native curing skill apart from what they can manage with their Blood Pacts. Therefore, taking in context from a Lv75 cap, why do you think for any reason that a Lv37 WHM should perform healing duties as well as a Lv75 RDM? If they could, THAT would be unbalanced.

Every job should have some sense of self identity that sets them apart from other similar jobs. If all Marauders and Pugilists and Lancers were alike, then what incentive is there for a player to level one over the other except for aesthetic appeal? Every job needs to have strengths to make them appealing, and weaknesses to offset their strengths that make other jobs appealing.

Also, Xoo is making the most valid point: Many different party schemes can work for things like Ifrit and Moogle, but the players have restricted it to where the easy way is the only right way. People won't try alternative setups that use Pugilists and such because the nuances of the fights make them less appealing and more troublesome. Rather than allow the Pugilists and such to face those obstacles and try to surmount them, they tell the Pugilists and such that they need to level an entirely different job to receive an invite. This isn't the game's fault. It's the players that make those "house rules".

Why should a Pugilist or Marauder perform as well at range as an Archer? What point then would there be to play Archer?

which is why there needs to be content that allows each class to shine
And I don't mean each particular boss should be geared more towards a certain class... I mean each boss fight should have objectives that include every class so it isn't necessary to have every class to complete it, but the more variety you have in your party, the easier the fight will be

[Xoo]

Oh, hello pretty kitty!

[Xoo]

honestly if one party make up is way easier... people are going to gravitate towards that and shun the other classes
Knowing that people aren't going to change... the fights could be made to encourage more varied groupings of classes

Flying all the way back to page 4, let me say this.

I believe not many groups ever strayed from the norm because:

A. Few people fully understand the capabilities of all the jobs.
B. Even fewer people can form a group that is aimed at the target's weakness.
C. Fewer still don't want to lead parties.
D. Not many are willing to go out on a guinea-pig party.
E. Word gets around fast as to what produces the biggest numbers, and proven once, becomes forever instilled as just awesome enough to inhibit further experimentation.

I've honestly been through some really retarded situations. Take for instance stun-pulling Imps (Imps again!) with BLM. I can't remember exactly why I was doing this, but I was doing it to try and alleviate the fact that no other job in the party was fit to do it. It wasn't the fastest EXP I've ever seen, but it wasn't at all bad either. Nobody left or complained because of it.

(Remembered why I was doing it! I didn't like soloing, and Black Mage wasn't highly regarded on imps, so I found a way to make myself useful - Pull, Rest MP, Firaga III?, Pull.)

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

Without getting into all the gory details, the article is pretty spot on coming from a White Mage at English launch of FFXI. Don't really follow the FFXIV part of it though.

Different opinions, different experiences. Forced party mechanic was a definitely downer in both FFXI and EQ. (Playing a heavy support and healing role, you're dependent on it).