New summoner is unacceptable

[Catwho]

Final verdict on SMN 90: It's fine.

I did the 90 solo duty on SMN and boy let me tell you (spoiler hidden)

Trading blow for blow with Zenos as a SMN was really really satisfying. He uses Tidal Wave? Fine, I'll use Mountain Buster. And you're not the only one that can Akh Morn - he did too, and at the same time I did! Super duper fun.

[Izar_Chillen]

Ive tried sum , my 71 job that i hadn't touched in a while and a tried a new fresh char for a few hours to see the new levelling experience .

After getting used to the new way it plays i am mixed . I think the thing that threw me the most is that "shine" thing and it giving you identical spells icons once it changes to the ruin/outburst you're already used to and using those in your rotation suddenly . TBH i think that shine system should have added the potency boost and insta cast bonus to the default ruin and outburst like how ruin and outburst get altered by Bahahmut . At least it would have felt consistent in key bind usage/muscle memory.

Speaking of consistency , i found it odd also that Ifrits gem version are slower , only 2 charges where as the others are faster cast by being instant. Its a weird to go from 1.5 sec default ruins to 2.5 for 2 casts under Ifrit, then instants for the other 2 summons.


Overall it feels weird in muscle /brain memory . I get what its trying to be now , it just has very poor flow.

[Laphicet]

As I posted in other thread this job is literally riddled with problems. Unlike most of the fanboys in this sub, I don't freak out when yoshi put something shiny and new in front of me. I look at objectively. And this job is just not a good redesign, the only that really changed is the theme of the job.
Most of the problems that SMN had followed into this rework, if not, made worse. The only thing they improved was demis now stay in place.

1. Bahamut/phoenix cd is based on on spell speed and not a strict 60cd. This allows both to drift out of 60sec and 120 buff windows that a party will provide

2. This even applies to our own buff, Searing Light. We will have to delay bahamut or delay the CD or we are waiting on both.


3. This points out the fault of carby. It hinders us severally. After every summon it returns to us so we need to position it every time we want to use searing light. Which can potentially delay our cd because carby is slow. As well depending on what summon you are using can be hetic to place carby

4. Phoenix is a dps loss for flavor and utility you cannot use when you need to

5. Ifrit design is weak for no reason and should technically be the strongest since we have to get it into melee range and two long casts. We are going to have to reserve swiftcast for this.

6. Summon animations can obscure visual mechanics.

7. Ruin 4 is very awkward and easily forgettable. It serves no point in our rotation outside of a pointless extra mobility option.

8. We have a ton of instant cast but nothing to fill the gap with. You get two festers that are immediately burned off in bahamut/phoenix

I don't know what I did but it took 2 gcds to get Carby to use Searing Light

I can go on further about the leveling process and gameplay of the class if needed but I wanted to keep it focused on lvl90 issues. This is also precursory because I haven't really done my own math

Let's talk about the failure in design...
This job can literally be broken down into 11 buttons for st or aoe that you will be using regularly most of which are minute long CDs.

Ruin3/ Tri Disaster
Gem shine/gem brilliance
Astral Flow
Energy Drain /Energy siphon
Ruin 4
Fester/Painflare
Searing light
Summon 1
Summon 2
Summon3
Summon bahamut/phoenix
Enkindle

7 spells once a minute
1 ability that use 2 twice a minute at the beginning of each minute.
1 2 minute ability that can't even match up with your own burst because of a stupid cd.

You barely use ruin 3 outside so ultimately you are just smashing either your single target or aoe gem spell with occasional astral flow. HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE CLAIM THAT OLD SMN IS NOTHING MORE THAN SPAMMING RUIN 3 WHILE SAYING THAT THIS ONE IS DIFFERENT!?
It's arguably more spammy because at least with the other versions of smn I could use dots, egi assaults, and ruin 4.

Where's the optimization that you guy thought it would have? If there's something more I would to know because at the current moment, there is close to none. SMN was know for it's obscene amount of DPS it could pull off where there were multiple targets. That's gone. Holding ruin4 stacks for movement or to burst. Gone. Storm blood smn you had to think if you needed to rush to bahamut if you needed to burst Or if you wanted to blow your mp pool on ruin 4.

Leveling process is probably one of the worst in the game because the one skill that actually makes the class anywhere near interesting to play is locked until level 86.

Speaking of traits...why is literally everything a direct upgrade to each other. I could never survive the level 1 to 90 at this point. You will be so starved any change in gameplay while leveling.

You literally lose dps when you hit level 80. How is that a thing!? It's so bad that it goes disbelief and funny to straight annoyance and anger.

You can't even delay to use phoenix because you would lose even more DPS.

Oh one of the main benefits to bring a smn is swiftcast raise. But we actively get punished if you don't use it for a ruby rite

How can you pet delay or ghost actions!? It only literally does two things and it can't even do that right!



You are still spamming one button. Pets can still ghost action. Rotation is still stagnant. Aetherflow is even more out of place. Do I need to continue or will you people stop defending the dev team for making horrid decisions in their classes?



Just had to vent on this because some of you are literally entranced by the new paint of this job but you can't see that it is maggot infested

This post says it better than I ever could have. People are far too entranced by the pretty colors and the shiny lights, but when you take that all away you're left with a class on par with a healer when it comes to 1spam and a class that's more button-bloated than any other class on record. All the pretty colors and effects vomit in the world can't hide that forever.

[RocciaSolida]

They could add more flashier Egi and not that red/green mosquito e an yellow *t*rd*.

At least let us reskin to a more fearsome glamour, not only carbuncle.

Aside that, class is fine as it. Loved the changes.

Finally a good post, thank you.
The worst of what you mentioned as far as I'm concerned is the need to reposition the Carbuncle after a demi even if you placed it in a spot before pulling and of course the spell speed memes forcing you to delay the demis to not delay SL (thus removing the point of spell speed completely).

[Gallus]

Meanwhile, I'm enjoying SMN like no other job and I've been here since ARR. Not gonna deny the job is simple, but I'm loving the lack of filler and huge amount of flexibility. Each primal minirotation feels unique (super simple I know, but still unique), it's a relentless nuke spam with every nuke flashier than the last lol, and downtimes no longer mess everything up like they did with the other SMN versions (in fact, downtimes even favor you this time around).

60 second rotations, with constant bursts of damage, and slightly different variations in what primals bring onto the table and their little rotations:

Single target - Titan > Garuda > Ifrit
AOE - Ifrit > Garuda > Titan

In terms of what does the most damage.

I'll give the current SMN a 9.9 only because searing light does not properly align with your demis because its CD is tied to your spell speed god knows why <.<.

Sorry for those that are disappointed with the current SMN, but it's literally my dream job in its current state (and I always attempted playing SMN in every expansion and in ARR but it always felt extremely clunky, unresponsive and glitchy to the point min-maxing it involved things that were not fun for me).

[Skiros]

60 second rotations, with constant bursts of damage, and slightly different variations in what primals bring onto the table and their little rotations:

Single target - Titan > Garuda > Ifrit
AOE - Ifrit > Garuda > Titan

In terms of what does the most damage.

This is wrong lol

[zcrash970]

This is wrong lol

Yeah titan is generally the strongest until there's a huge number of mobs when Garuda's slipstream can overpower it. Ifrit should be sat on until you can safely cast and dash in

[Gallus]

This is wrong lol

Don't Ifrit and Garuda have better AoE upfront damage than Titan with both crimson attacks and Slipstream against packs of mobs that die relatively fast and that have little downtimes between them? This seems like a fairly common scenario -add phases, trash packs in dungeons, etc.-
If you factor in all the primal GCDs, my guess is that Titan still wins in AoE, but if you only take into account the highest damage possible in the least amount of GCDs because downtimes are happening after that, I'm still wrong?

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

The new summoner changes has convinced me that Summoner is the magic class I should choose going forward.

[Vukimukinukiduki]

Problem with new summoner is HUGE primals arriving and scaring shit out of me. Also they hide some mechanics.