[MAJOR ENDWALKER/SHADOWBRINGER SPOILERS] On the introduction of dynamis.

[TheRealQuah]

Wasn't that portrayed more as the 'intangible human spirit' and less an external power source?

That's essentially what dynamis is though. It's just giving a name to the "your hope and will to endure gives you the strength to exceed expectations" stuff that's been part of the game from the start.

Dynamis is the reason we are so strong compared to everyone else, we have been harnessing it's power all along. It's said in Elpis that our Aether is incredibly thin. Everything we fight is aether based yet we overcome it easily.

We have 30k health and bosses have 20m, yet we still beat them easily. It's our will and determination that makes us strong, not aether. It's the same with Zenos, the reason he's so strong is because his emotions power his Dynamis and not aether.

[Veloran]

It's flawed to simply attribute all previous phenomena to Dynamis. For example the Totentanz is explicitly described as an aetheric reaction, and in Omega WoL's varying powerlevel is ascribed to subconsciously limiting your aetheric output and having inconsistent and therefore unpredictable performance, which as a machine Omega cannot comprehend.

[Cleretic]

It's flawed to simply attribute all previous phenomena to Dynamis. For example the Totentanz is explicitly described as an aetheric reaction, and in Omega WoL's varying powerlevel is ascribed to subconsciously limiting your aetheric output and having inconsistent and therefore unpredictable performance, which as a machine Omega cannot comprehend.

When we learn about akasa from Nidhana, it is specifically mentioned as a very esoteric field without a lot of study around it, so I can completely understand a group of people largely without scientific background--like, say, a dancer's troupe--not quite getting all the facts right. The fact that pretty much every single thing about the Totentantz checks out except that suggests to me that they were dealing with a dynamis situation and just mislabeled a few things. Personally, I think the Totentantz was actually deliberately written to be a dynamis thing, because the writers clearly already had the ideas laid out internally, and things just line up way too well. In fact I'd consider discrepancies to be less 'proof that it's not this thing' and more suggestion that maybe the plans changed a tiny bit in the time between expansions. It'd also be far from the only time when they play with a concept in side content that would later appear fully-formed in the MSQ; consider the designs for what would go on to be Sin Eaters in Amdapor Hard, or Eureka being what can only be described as a 'creation magic primal' in Stormblood.

And as for Omega... while that I personally don't think was exactly a Dynamis Thing (I think more plausible about Omega is that Omega's very bad at separating fantasy from reality, and is so muddled by it that it can't even parse combat very well), I do think that if there's any 'genius intellect' in the game that would definitely suck at seeing dynamis, it is absolutely Omega's people. They are phenomenally bad at understanding emotions, not to mention barely having any themselves, I'm fairly sure it's straight-up impossible for them to detect an emotionally-influenced energy like dynamis.

[vormela]

I have seen people mention time-travel as the reference they were making when they said "we're really going there" but I really feel like introducing dynamis was the most shocking risk.

There is always stuff that scientific knowledge can't quite explain, but it did feel out of left field. It felt like they thought they had to take us back to show us a "source" of this new phenomenon to be able to make it work.

There must be more scientific fields IRL than I am familiar with where all-encompassing underlying processes have just recently been fleshed out. Like when you are writing a paper or doing a study... When you read old literature from before the discovery you have to parse through all the old outdated terminology and explanations to figure out how to readdress those observations and apply them to what you are trying to say.

They can do a lot in the story's future with the problem of reaching a scientific consensus about these new/old ideas.

I had thought that other Hydaelyn (uhh, Etheirys) cultures' scientific inquiry would be able to shed light on the workings of the in-game universe, but I didn't think it would be this big! Now that they are going to continue writing the game, it feels like this dynamis might just be paving the way for more revelations as we go to those places that are name-dropped toward the end.

ETA: The scientific inquiry and theorycrafting in Thavnair felt believable and organic and any arguments about the specifics would have detracted from the story and the imminent catastrophe happening all around. Like I can compare it to the pedestrian observations about how the 2020 pandemic research, engineering, and application took place and how it was a global effort that is still not over.

[Alenore]

Dynamis is the reason we are so strong compared to everyone else, we have been harnessing it's power all along. It's said in Elpis that our Aether is incredibly thin. Everything we fight is aether based yet we overcome it easily.

We have 30k health and bosses have 20m, yet we still beat them easily. It's our will and determination that makes us strong, not aether. It's the same with Zenos, the reason he's so strong is because his emotions power his Dynamis and not aether.

Our aether is extremely thin because we traveled to a very far moment in time. Elidibus even says so, saying we would have even less substance than the heroes he summoned in 5.3.
Hermes then says that just because our aether is thin, doesn't mean we're entelechy with abilities to manipulate it to a great extent, but that even if we manage to use it a bit, it can make a lot of difference.
So no, I'd rather not attribute Dynamis to everything we did.

[Lyth]

At this point, I'd like to see a cutscene where a few Sharlayan scholars get into a heated argument over whether Dynamis exists. Fictional scientific dogma is almost as entertaining as historical scientific dogma. Would that people were less attached to their theories and more open minded.

[Ghald]

Two words, confirmation bias.


They practically don't know how to resolved Hydaelyn and Zodiark conclusion without making it predictable. In an attempt to make the story 'interesting' they had to throw a twist at the end.
If anything I believe this concept of Dynamis only begin to form somewhere around the development of Shadowbringers. G'raha Tia were never going to come back after the whole Crystal Tower sub-story (yes. sub story) untill they need to play around with the concept of time travel so they brought him back in. While G'raha Tia method isn't actual time travel per se but dimensional, this time we ACTUALLY time travel to Elpis itself.


I can confidently say, they pulled a Necron. Although this Necron had about an expansion to lurk in.


No matter, I don't feel like it's worth trying to justify the story or make sense of it. Yoshi-P did said that this game is more or less a Final Fantasy theme park.
I was hoping that Endwalker would surpass Shadowbringers story telling but like the underlying theme of this expansion story, pain and suffering exist (my personal pain is that this is mediocre story telling) even more so than happiness but we just need to except it and move on. The developer are ready to move on, so much so that they would pull a Necron on it, so too am I ready to move on and leave this story arc of a dump behind, but then again we have no shortage of players praising its story so I believe my opinion is of the minority here.



Don't take it personally, everyone taste in storytelling are different, mine just happen to be those of disdain when it comes to time travel or multiverse. I was able to except dimensional travelling in Shadowbringers because the overall story was compelling but this time it's not, not for me at least.

[Veloran]

When we learn about akasa from Nidhana, it is specifically mentioned as a very esoteric field without a lot of study around it, so I can completely understand a group of people largely without scientific background--like, say, a dancer's troupe--not quite getting all the facts right.

The same could be said of a bunch of forumites who have just been introduced to the concept. They say it's aetherial in nature and I'm inclined to believe them. I suspect if we didn't know it comes direct from the Ancients everybody would be claiming the Echo is Dynamis because it shares some emotional similarities.

[KageTokage]

snip

Necron shows up at the very end of FF IX with no explanation/context whatsoever, whereas the ultimate threat here was foreshadowed back in 5.0, with the "sound" that caused the Final Days suggesting there was some kind of external influence at play.

Looking even further back, I remembered how Hydaelyn has only ever referred to Zodiark by name once, and started thinking the "darkness" she's been mentioning might be something else entirely; moreso with the claim that it would bring an end to all life, which is at odds with Zodiark's original purpose.

Both Meteion and dynamis are concepts that even if not originally part of the story, were easily woven in using pre-existing knowledge to make it feel organic IMO.

[Ghald]

Necron shows up at the very end of FF IX with no explanation/context whatsoever, whereas the ultimate threat here was foreshadowed back in 5.0, with the "sound" that caused the Final Days suggesting there was some kind of external influence at play.

Looking even further back, I remembered how Hydaelyn has only ever referred to Zodiark by name once, and started thinking the "darkness" she's been mentioning might be something else entirely; moreso with the claim that it would bring an end to all life, which is at odds with Zodiark's original purpose.

Both Meteion and dynamis are concepts that even if not originally part of the story, were easily woven in using pre-existing knowledge to make it feel organic IMO.

That's why I said they implementing the ground work for it at the start of Shadowbringers.
When I said "Pulling a Necron" I'm not necessary comparing the two 1/1 where the final boss just pop out at the end, I mean they pull a major antagonist role to replaced a long established one, namely the Garlean Empire, Ascian, Zodiark. We spent a whole base game plus 3 expansions worth of game having the Empire, Ascian/Zodirk as the looming threat in the background. While you can argue that the hint of the existant of Dynamis were forshadowing since the begining of Shadowbringers, the fact still remain that we, as the player only came to know of this toward the ending part of this expansion, small hints with the Elpis flower early on aside.


This is why Emet-Selch is such a great antagonist. He didn't just become the 'bad guy' toward the end. They played him as our friend when he saved Y'shtola and accompanied us during our journy in Shadowbringers but we player still put him at arms lenght because he's Emperor Solus himself and an Acian to boot. His plight is almost the same as us, to save our love ones though achieving that mean it is our demise.


Here Meteion just appear toward the later half of the game and assumed the role of main antagonist (or the main cause of Final Days) and all of this because of what? Hermese could not handle the truth? And why can't Emet and co just let him listen to Meteion report before taking her in, insert time magic to erase/alter memory, yes I remember about this plot device explained to me by one of the Sharlaryan scholar, sorry forgot his name, so in the end we have a whole lot of plot contrive to move the story along.


As a footnote I think they kicked Zenos to the curb. I haven't complete the game yet (up to around quest Lv.88) so I might be wrong but I think Zenos got the same treatment as Zodiark but what does it matter right?