Summoner is a Final Fantasy 14 summoner (not a warlock wow clone)

[HappyHubris]

I cannot think of any other job I have played in this game that does not want to mash their special skills as soon as they come up, so it is unique.

Ignoring how every class tries to line up special skills with burst windows, BRD had (has?) this quite a bit where you wanted to manage skills around DoT ticks to prevent overcapping procs. As a simple example, when in Mage's ballad in 5.x with Bloodletter and Empyreal Arrow both ready you would want to hit the weaker button first, as EA triggers a BL proc. You'd also want to think about the next DoT tick before using EA in WM and MB, as EA near a DoT tick could overcap for that song. There were other examples of this, as well.

[Corbeau]

New-SMN feels like it's all about being able to keep your mental bookmark in a semi-dynamic rotation at all times. Ruin and Gemshine being different buttons felt strange to me at first, but it's actually what makes it so important to keep your head straight. If you lose track of your attunement stacks and press gemshine, you lose a GCD. If you autopilot into a capstone summon and keep trying to push Gemshine, you lose a GCD. This wouldn't be the case if the buttons were consolidated. Given that there's some filler space in the rotation, the punishment for mental mistakes would be almost nil if the buttons were consolidated. Against a target dummy, of course, keeping mental track of your rotation is easy. Nothing about the rotation itself is difficult. The challenging part is going to come when you start contorting your primal order around fight mechanics, going through them in different orders each time through the cycle. I'm a fan of the design: there is palpable purpose behind the choices they made when putting this rework together.

The good and bad of the rework both rest on the same fact: this is a new class. I did not like old-SMN, but I really like new-SMN - enough that I'll be maining it for savage next tier. Great for me! For those who want the theme but disliked the old mechanics, this is fantastic! For fans of old-SMN, though, this is a big oof. Old-SMN is just plain gone. This is, for all intents and purposes, a completely new caster class. I expect that they're clearing the way for a 4th caster that will be a better thematic fit for a DoT-based class, but in the meantime that niche will go unfilled.

[rewd]

New-SMN feels like it's all about being able to keep your mental bookmark in a semi-dynamic rotation at all times. Ruin and Gemshine being different buttons felt strange to me at first, but it's actually what makes it so important to keep your head straight. If you lose track of your attunement stacks and press gemshine, you lose a GCD. If you autopilot into a capstone summon and keep trying to push Gemshine, you lose a GCD. This wouldn't be the case if the buttons were consolidated. Given that there's some filler space in the rotation, the punishment for mental mistakes would be almost nil if the buttons were consolidated. Against a target dummy, of course, keeping mental track of your rotation is easy. Nothing about the rotation itself is difficult. The challenging part is going to come when you start contorting your primal order around fight mechanics, going through them in different orders each time through the cycle. I'm a fan of the design: there is palpable purpose behind the choices they made when putting this rework together.

The good and bad of the rework both rest on the same fact: this is a new class. I did not like old-SMN, but I really like new-SMN - enough that I'll be maining it for savage next tier. Great for me! For those who want the theme but disliked the old mechanics, this is fantastic! For fans of old-SMN, though, this is a big oof. Old-SMN is just plain gone. This is, for all intents and purposes, a completely new caster class. I expect that they're clearing the way for a 4th caster that will be a better thematic fit for a DoT-based class, but in the meantime that niche will go unfilled.

This game is not designed for DoTs which is why they have been, slowly but gradually, getting rid of them. They already made BRD's DoTs irrelevant in 6.0 and they are obviously on the chopping block for 7.0. 0 chance we are getting any class designed on DoTs.

[Snowdove]

I am completely lost on the new rotation. I'm only level 65, so am missing some chunks. But am confused as to what to do when you have your three elemental available.



I know. I'm a noob. Sorry.

[Taranok]

New-SMN feels like it's all about being able to keep your mental bookmark in a semi-dynamic rotation at all times. Ruin and Gemshine being different buttons felt strange to me at first, but it's actually what makes it so important to keep your head straight. If you lose track of your attunement stacks and press gemshine, you lose a GCD. If you autopilot into a capstone summon and keep trying to push Gemshine, you lose a GCD. This wouldn't be the case if the buttons were consolidated. Given that there's some filler space in the rotation, the punishment for mental mistakes would be almost nil if the buttons were consolidated. Against a target dummy, of course, keeping mental track of your rotation is easy. Nothing about the rotation itself is difficult. The challenging part is going to come when you start contorting your primal order around fight mechanics, going through them in different orders each time through the cycle. I'm a fan of the design: there is palpable purpose behind the choices they made when putting this rework together.

The good and bad of the rework both rest on the same fact: this is a new class. I did not like old-SMN, but I really like new-SMN - enough that I'll be maining it for savage next tier. Great for me! For those who want the theme but disliked the old mechanics, this is fantastic! For fans of old-SMN, though, this is a big oof. Old-SMN is just plain gone. This is, for all intents and purposes, a completely new caster class. I expect that they're clearing the way for a 4th caster that will be a better thematic fit for a DoT-based class, but in the meantime that niche will go unfilled.

My problem with ruin 3 and gemshine being separate buttons is that it's not even consistent. Ruin 3 is used for phoenix and bahamut, but for the egis it's a completely separate button. Feels a bit tacked on honestly. I can understand some of the argument (if you need to interrupt ifrit for some reason, having a faster cast ruin 3 makes sense) but even for mental gymnastics it doesn't feel like it was especially well thought out and just is a bit cumbersome for the sake of being cumbersome.

I do agree that the class is about having a semi-fluid mind and having a different, changing tempo rotation. But at the same time I don't think the class is better for it being separate buttons strictly speaking. It's one thing to change up the tempo and rotations, but another to have an annoying rotation purely as a 'gotcha!' mechanic.

And right now, gemshine/precious brilliance feel like a 'Gotcha!' mechanic, not something truly interesting to the class. I'd rather they weren't gotchas, and did something else with the buttons. The class needs more something in it, but I couldn't possibly say what it needed. Probably going back to ShB's rocker rotation for phoenix would be a good start (The whole ruin 3/outburst alternation part) and trying to bring that dynamicism to the class instead of silly gotchas.

This then leads into things like Enkindle and Deathflare being separate buttons from summon bahamut. Now, since Deathflare is now also just straight up part of bahamut, why is enkindle bahamut a separate button from summon bahamut? You can only use it once, you can only use summon bahamut once, the 2 are functionally exclusive and one follows the other.

When I complain about things like button bloat, it's things like this that I start talking about, where enkindle bahamut really should not be a unique button. It exists to bloat bars and, while SMN's bars aren't exactly bloated with barely 16 buttons purely for offense, but it speaks volumes when you can safely say they feel actually redundant.

[Yasminou]

This game is not designed for DoTs which is why they have been, slowly but gradually, getting rid of them. They already made BRD's DoTs irrelevant in 6.0 and they are obviously on the chopping block for 7.0. 0 chance we are getting any class designed on DoTs.

At this level, you summon one of them and use your attunement through Gemshine or Precious Brillance as modified versions of Ruin or Outburst/Tri-Disaster. Depending on the summon, the modifications are not the same: Ifrit is more powerful but with a longer cast, Titan is instant with the same power I think, Garuda is instant with a fast GCD but less powerful, which is good to move.

The difficulty will come from choosing the order of the 3 summons depending on the fight. You do not want to cast longer with Ifrit if the fight throws AoE on the ground at you, for instance.

[abesut]

Only thing I miss is being able to glamour the 3 summons. Don't care if on paper they do the same thing, but gimme Ramuh, Shiva and Leviathan. My 3 favorite summons except for bahamut xD

[IdowhatIwant]

1. Ifrit Titan and Garuda should be OGCD. The class feels like it was designed more around weaving with the change to ruin and a large number of spells being instant cast but we have hardly any ogcds to weave.

2. Ifrit and Titan should be ranged like Garuda. Assuming at 90 they function the same way. I feel like the hit boxes make Ifrit and Titan feel wonky and it does not hit all the targets well. It seems like they use there move at max range and clip the enemy you target rather than get in its face and execute the move. Making them all ranged is a more simple fix though let alone decreases the delay of the action going off.

3. For those of you that want the class to be a little more complex. I think it would be cool to be allowed to summon any of the 3 summons instead of each one once. They would have to likely do some balancing but I think it would add some spice to the class.

[Rika007]

Only thing I miss is being able to glamour the 3 summons. Don't care if on paper they do the same thing, but gimme Ramuh, Shiva and Leviathan. My 3 favorite summons except for bahamut xD

Pretty sure we will be seeing those next expansion as the summons we do after Pheonix, it's almost a perfect setup for the next expansion jobs.

For my part my first initial thoughts while doing leveling roulettes and current dungeons?

Thank freaking god, I have a consistent rotation throughout the leveling process that doesn't change every time I go into a new duty. The rotation is consistent at every level and just adds new bells and whistles throughout the expansion. The job still feels busy during its opener, and I don't even have the Favors yet from 86, which is the biggest addition to the rotation proper itself that starts to differentiate the phases well. I very much like the pace and flow of the job I like that the rotation feels tight still, but being able to do the summons in a different order and make me think about when to use them (Ifrit especially) brings back the feeling of Stormblood summoner being able to choose when to rush through Aether stacks. I wonder if that same rush idea might be a good idea with Ifrit Garuda and Titan summons at max level if an enforced downtime is about to happen, so that after downtime you can go right into the next Demi phase. If so that will be really nice. The mobility is... Holy god the mobility is amazing. What are cast times. Get those suckers out of here.

There are negatives, I liked the DoTs, and without them fester and painflare feels like it needs a bit of an aesthetic overhaul to something that fits new Summoner's current aesthetic (and just overall I find myself in constant anxiety not seeing DoTs ticking on the bosses target bar). Searing Light being based off the position of the carbuncle still sucks, really wish they would change that. Pheonix not having it's 1,2,1,2 rotation makes its section a bit more dull now compared to Bahamuts. And while I'm sure once I properly adjust to the stat squish I will feel the dopamine rush of one really hard hitting AkhMorn/Revelation well enough, but I preferred more having two during the trance.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Wish Elemental Mastery was level 78 instead of level 86. Job is monotonous Ruin spam without that trait.