Summoner is a Final Fantasy 14 summoner (not a warlock wow clone)

[rewd]

There is only a limited number of ways to interpret that statement and once again shows how disconnected some are from the experience that most people have had with this job.

The statement was "Maybe people were calling 5.0 SMN tunnel carpal job"

Your argument: let me prove you wrong by showing people tweets of people calling 5.0 SMN tunnerl carpal job.

It's weird we have to say this (again), but no. YouTube likes are not an argument. Twitter is not an argument. Twitter and intelligent life are mutually exclusive. Your comment is automatically invalid the moment you unironically use Twitter as an argument.

If you want to bring a real argument to the discussion, I invite you to use your next comment to prove why the playable version of SMN that was reworked is able to give you carpal tunnel syndrome despite being of the jobs with the slowest pace. I fear your next point might just be Tumblr, Pinterest or God knows what, though.

[Laphicet]

I might as well add this to the ongoing discussion. Appealing to casuals is what got healers to the current and incredibly awful state they're in right now, where the devs fuck over the lore every expansion and they're so braindead to play that the job is a constant revolving door and the forums are filled with complaints for the past four years. A̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶t̶e̶m̶p̶b̶a̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶u̶m̶s̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶l̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶ ̶"̶s̶u̶d̶d̶e̶n̶l̶y̶ ̶c̶a̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶l̶o̶r̶e̶"̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶d̶e̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶a̶f̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶s̶t̶a̶n̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶s̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶l̶e̶r̶ ̶l̶o̶r̶e̶.̶

Yoshi also said healers will never be more complex than they are or more fun than they are because he doesn't want to scare casuals... when the rotation is already braindead one-button-spam that you can learn to optimize in an hour the choice is to not add to this without hurting the healer kit, but to buff the healer kit further so the curespammers and casuals who think spamming your weakest heals is how to play healer won't get their feelings hurt. Is that the philosophy we should take for every job? That we should constantly dumb them down and solely appeal to the casuals to the detriment of those who want even the slightest amount of depth from the role? That easy to learn and hard to master doesn't exist and we should drive both the skill floor and skill ceiling into the dirt?

EDIT: And it's also rich calling SMN a carpal tunnel job, when healers exist and actually are the single button spam and repetitive motion that tends to cause that kind of injury. If anything all three (soon to be four) healers are far more worthy of that title than any other job ever has been.

[aveyond-dreams]

I fear your next point might just be Tumblr, Pinterest or God knows what, though.

There is no evidence that could be provided to you that you would not dismiss. That being said, this is what tumblr thinks of old SMN:



Let me be clear these are *not* my words but they portray a sentiment that is commonly shared by most people outside of the more insular communities focused around the job, which are largely resistant to changing the class out of what comes across as an illusion of complexity when the class is just not designed as well as others. Calling healer jobs into the debate is rather unjust because even casual players are bored of healers as they currently are. New smn hits a better balance that is not overly convoluted but also not void of depth.

[Kolsykol]

Twitter and Tumblr are not insular communities lol?

*Checks demographics*

Uh oh.



I am sure you can find Tweets and Tumblr posts of people who disagree with you too, just finding examples that support you doesn't prove anything.

[aveyond-dreams]

If those social media sites are not a valid way to get a general feel of people's mood then how could one possibly pretend the forums are any better? If likes on twitter and youtube mean nothing then likes on here mean even less then. Make it make sense.

How about cold hard facts like how many people actively play the job?

Interesting how you assume that those who are happy about the changes are not actively playing the job when we know that to not be the case.

People don't play jobs they don't enjoy.

You got that right. I tried old SMN and loathed it and felt like I had been sold a lie because of how horrible it felt. In any case you don't have to be a chef to know when food just tastes bad, and so on.

Anyway, I predict that most who champion these change for pure aesthetic appeal will quit it between 6.1 ~ 6.2.

If history has proven anything it's that just does not happen. If large amounts of the playerbase managed to have fun and main jobs like Dancer and Machinist throughout all of Shadowbringers I highly doubt they'll grow tired of the dopamine rushes new SMN gives.

[Dyvid]

If those social media sites are not a valid way to get a general feel of people's mood then how could one possibly pretend the forums are any better? If likes on twitter and youtube mean nothing then likes on here mean even less then. Make it make sense.

How about cold hard facts like how many people actively play the job? How many raid with it? People don't play jobs they don't enjoy.

Anyway, I predict that most who champion these change for pure aesthetic appeal will quit it between 6.1 ~ 6.2. Personal I wonder if SMN will get hit with the movement tax when it comes to damage output.

[Roda]

Here's the thing, general feels are not specific solutions.

Take this example from my personal life
I have this friend, I love him to bits, but his grasp on feedback mirrors the average mmo player. (Casual, not very interested in the construction of the game, talks in emotions). Whenever we talked about openworld design and how it was lacking he would always swear up and down "we need an urban map an urban map would be fix everything!" Which would leave us kind of puzzled because we were talking about how shallow the maps felt, not aesthetics. Then amarout came and he still wasn't happy. After some prying I got him to reference other games with designs he liked, and it turned out he didn't want a city exactly, he wanted a sprawling metroidvania style map with a lot of connected chambers and secret routes. He just didn't know how to express that in constructive terms, so he just picked a vibe and ran with it.

Listening to player feedback is more of an art than it is a creation of a todo list. And thats why we as players should give as much detailed information as we can. Both numerical aaand emotional. But we have to be specific and honest.

[Rolder50]

"No one called it a carpal tunnel job"

You were saying?

Despite whatever fixes they implemented after 5.0's initial version of the class it is still widely regarded as *the carpal tunnel job.* And yes, dumbing it down is literally the point. There was nowhere left for the job to go with how convoluted it was. This is not new information to the playerbase outside raiders who I guess do not interact with the community at large for whatever reason. Complexity should come from fight design and the level of content you choose to tackle. Not from grappling with poorly designed controls.

You literally proved my point. I said that people could make the claim for 5.0 launch summoner, and all the provided examples are from when 5.0 was live. They fixed it. Case closed.

[Kolsykol]

If those social media sites are not a valid way to get a general feel of people's mood then how could one possibly pretend the forums are any better?

Well for one if you post on this forum it's evidence in and of itself that you actually play the game ( and that you're playing it currently ).

On sites like Reddit, Twitter and Tumblr people also just tend to be '' Redditors '' etc.
And maybe they happen to play FFXIV or they just end up there because it's gaming related and they just skim through gaming related subs and maybe tried the game once or quit or whatever.
People just go from Subreddit to Subreddit and shitpost.

Edit: To use myself as an example, I did it on the WoW Subreddit before I deleted my account because Reddit is the worst.
I haven't played WoW since Cata but I still posted there.

[Warlyx]

wondering about deathflare come EW it gets upgrade to Ahk morn after we get bahamuth at 70 i guess

Here's the thing, general feels are not specific solutions.

Take this example from my personal life
I have this friend, I love him to bits, but his grasp on feedback mirrors the average mmo player. (Casual, not very interested in the construction of the game, talks in emotions). Whenever we talked about openworld design and how it was lacking he would always swear up and down "we need an urban map an urban map would be fix everything!" Which would leave us kind of puzzled because we were talking about how shallow the maps felt, not aesthetics. Then amarout came and he still wasn't happy. [/b]

Tbh Amarout is so underused , could have been the main hub or something like Mor dhona back then.