Summoner is a Final Fantasy 14 summoner (not a warlock wow clone)

[ChazNatlo]

This has been acknowledged several times in this thread, they simply do not accept that they wasted ten years misinterpreting that the theme they’ve been asking for only needed to be represented graphically. Mechanically it still could have been done better and in a way that didn’t alienate actual lovers of the job, as I’ve explained earlier.

Understood. I figured someone ostensibly on the same side as them saying it might serve the purpose better.

Like, I'm excited to test out these new phases. A gap closer on a mage, hilarious (though I remember back in 2.X discussions on whether it was Meta for summoner to stay in melee to squeeze out that extra bit of DPS from the book slaps) knowing when the enemy was going to stay still and when you need to not stay still. Cool. I'm a bit of a reactional player, so having things set up so I need to know when to do what, I prefer that over a defined rotation. It's not much variation (the flow still goes Bahamut, ARR Trio, Phoenix, ARR Trio, repeat) but it is something and I can work with that.

These are the reasons I like the new summoner. The big boy summons are just gravy. People focussing on how the graphical changes make the class better just hurt my position.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

Yea, I remember managing Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Shadow Flare, Contagion, weaving oGCDs between. That is why I played the job, because I found it fun managing all those systems. Not for the 0MG I'M A 5UMM0N3R! If you want to play a WoW Demonic Warlock you should go play WoW. You can summon to your hearts content.

So you admit 2.0 Summoner was summoner in name only and was only fun because of the jobs random poison/viral magic and not the actual summons? And you used to call yourself a Summoner main yet played Summon-er for the poison magic? And you're telling someone to go play a job in another game that has actual proper summons instead of making Summoner a summon-er? Yeeaaah, not much I can say about that without going on a tangent and you're clearly not worth the time or effort.

For all you 5UMM0N3R mains, not lumping the real Summoner mains in with you, out there you all sure love your poison/viral magic which sounds an awful lot like Necromancy and not Summoning. If anything Summoner should have just been Necromancer with all the poison flinging nonsense it had and how the egis basically look like corpses.

I'll be over here lounging on my beach chair sipping my cocktail and waiting for November 19th to roll on by to take your Summoner main place because it's finally a Summon-er and not a poison toting job with lousy janky glorified DoT pets.

[Layte_Aeon]

Understood. I figured someone ostensibly on the same side as them saying it might serve the purpose better.

Like, I'm excited to test out these new phases. A gap closer on a mage, hilarious (though I remember back in 2.X discussions on whether it was Meta for summoner to stay in melee to squeeze out that extra bit of DPS from the book slaps) knowing when the enemy was going to stay still and when you need to not stay still. Cool. I'm a bit of a reactional player, so having things set up so I need to know when to do what, I prefer that over a defined rotation. It's not much variation (the flow still goes Bahamut, ARR Trio, Phoenix, ARR Trio, repeat) but it is something and I can work with that.

These are the reasons I like the new summoner. The big boy summons are just gravy. People focussing on how the graphical changes make the class better just hurt my position.

I’ve mained SMN since 2.2, while it’ll take a bit to get used to I’m rather excited for the changes.

The main issue I think SMN had was in identity. It never seemed sure of what its aim was. You had dots to keep up, except it was only for damage, your Aetherflow mechanic only half matched that, and half tied into burst phases with trances and demi summons, your pets outside of assults were fancy looking dots that before ShB could die, and it just felt, not complex but convoluted and at times unintuitive.

A bit of me is sad about pets going but another part of me says that they’ve had 8 years to wrestle with pet AI, there comes a point where the solution is to remove the problem all together.

[rewd]

I thought this thread already reached peak clownery, but now that aveyond-dreams's replacement has arrived, we were gifted the new knowledge that poison= necromancy. Everyone's looking at Reaper, but it turns out SCH is actually the wannabe necromancer job. Fairies are just family friendly voidsents.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

I thought this thread already reached peak clownery, but now that aveyond-dreams's replacement has arrived, we were gifted the new knowledge that poison= necromancy. Everyone's looking at Reaper, but it turns out SCH is actually the wannabe necromancer job. Fairies are just family friendly voidsents.

Back to chime in again. Biolysis, which does deal with death through the decomposition of matter through bacteria and does fit into the necromancy theme, doesn't look like poison or viral magic. It looks like mathematic symbols which fits Scholar's entire "militaristic and scholarly" theme. Easy fix for the poison/viral DoTs feeling out of place on Arcanist/Summoner would be to change the names and VFX to be more in line with how Ruin and Painflare look; runic symbols. Or have SMN summon something to put poison on enemies, which there are only 2 poison related summons in the entirety of final fantasy, one of which that can never be used because of this game's lore. Eukrasian Dosis looks a better visual for Arcanist/SMN DoTs than Bio or Miasma ever did.

Wouldn't surprise me if Scholar is the next job that gets a complete from-the-ground-up rework in 7.0 and loses Ruin, Ruin 2, Bio and Bio 2 in place of things that will fit Scholar thematically as Scholar has already been effectively split from Arcanist.

See ya in November.

[rewd]

Back to chime in again. Biolysis, which does deal with death through the decomposition of matter through bacteria and does fit into the necromancy theme, doesn't look like poison or viral magic. It looks like mathematic symbols which fits Scholar's entire "militaristic and scholarly" theme. Easy fix for the poison/viral DoTs feeling out of place on Arcanist/Summoner would be to change the names and VFX to be more in line with how Ruin and Painflare look; runic symbols. Or have SMN summon something to put poison on enemies, which there are only 2 poison related summons in the entirety of final fantasy, one of which that can never be used because of this game's lore. Eukrasian Dosis looks a better visual for Arcanist/SMN DoTs than Bio or Miasma ever did.

Wouldn't surprise me if Scholar is the next job that gets a complete from-the-ground-up rework in 7.0 and loses Ruin, Ruin 2, Bio and Bio 2 in place of things that will fit Scholar thematically as Scholar has already been effectively split from Arcanist.

See ya in November.

After FFXI, the Necromancer job - err, Scholar - was changed to be a tactician able to use white and black magic. Poison and related spells, as black magic, are part of a scholar's arsenal, as you can see in the FF3 remake or in FF11 (which is often used as a paradigm for job design, but only when it is convenient). They were also more prominent in FF14, before Square Enix decided that only idiots play healers.

If the topic is "what fits Scholar", I guess I'll go with what people that literally created Scholar think, and not what a random user on a forum thinks. You are out of luck here, friend.

EDIT: as a heads-up:

Biolysis, which does deal with death through the decomposition of matter through bacteria and does fit into the necromancy theme

Lysis doesn't mean death through bacteria. A lysis can occur through detergents, enzymes, pressure, sound, temperature (and so on), viruses and bacteria.

[Rolder50]

I'm still of the opinion that current Summoner is more summoner-y then the new version, purely because you can actually control your summons. With the new version they just come down give you a buff and then leave. If you remove the model from the spell or replace it with something that isn't a primal, is it still a summoner? Hmm...

[Grimoire-M]

I'm still of the opinion that current Summoner is more summoner-y then the new version, purely because you can actually control your summons. With the new version they just come down give you a buff and then leave. If you remove the model from the spell or replace it with something that isn't a primal, is it still a summoner? Hmm...

It’s made worse by the fact the new spells aren’t even tied to each pet directly. In the sense that they’re cast by them. Egi Assaults and Enkindle actually are and have a clear purpose within the current rotation. They’re just not pretty. If they were at least honest that they also hated the pet AI then that would at least be accurate. Hell my problems with Devotion and Carby’s new Shield are the same as the current version. Can’t use either while a Demi-Summon or avatar is out.

[Dyvid]

Man, did someone cast resurrection on Akiza because that's the level where these post have gone.

Yada Yada Yada.

So when are you guys going to lead the charge to get Black Mage and Red Mage changed so it feels more true to Final Fantasy? Last I check BLM doesn't just cast Fire, Ice, and a little thunder. Red Mage could be used as the group healer and deal DPS/Enfeebling magic when not healing. And let's not even start with Bard or Dancer.

It’s made worse by the fact the new spells aren’t even tied to each pet directly. In the sense that they’re cast by them. Egi Assaults and Enkindle actually are and have a clear purpose within the current rotation. They’re just not pretty. If they were at least honest that they also hated the pet AI then that would at least be accurate. Hell my problems with Devotion and Carby’s new Shield are the same as the current version. Can’t use either while a Demi-Summon or avatar is out.

Honestly it looks like they just deleted pets then moved Egi Assualt and Enkindle to the caster with flashier animation. Real game changer lol.

[MercuryD]

Man, did someone cast resurrection on Akiza because that level where these summoner post are.

I was just thinking this!! I forgot their name but remember their nauseatingly common posts back in the day.