FF14 is not made for hardcore players.

[Jojoya]

So genuine question here, but is that how you'd define hardcore content? Needing to "no life" to clear one tier before the next?

Does a game like that even exist? I mean I won't be surprised if the answer is yes but like...

Idk I just feel like the whole casual vs hardcore debate is kinda silly when there are so many, apparently wildly different, opinions on what "hardcore" and "casual" actually mean. @OP does anyone even actually believe this is a hardcore game? Is literally anyone unironically expecting "Savage" level performance from random pugs outside of Savage content (and genuinely believing that's a reasonable expectation)? I mean I'm certain there are some out there who do, but I sure hope it's not a huge number of people.

Expecting people to put in any level of effort at all to go beyond the absolute bare minimum in multiplayer content =/= being elitist.

I bolded an important part of what you said - these discussions are pretty silly when most games are casual entertainment played for leisure and relaxation. They're played to have fun. You don't have to be the best at something to have fun.

Player communities can't even agree about what is "casual" and what is "hardcore". Sometimes I wonder if the words they're looking for are "amateur" and "professional".

I agree it's not unreasonable to expect people to put in a minimum of effort in multiplayer content. The problem is part of the community has unreasonable expectations for what should be considered minimum of effort. They expect others to be 90th percentile quality in content that only requires 20th percentile effort to clear. They expect others to speed run the content so they can get to grinding out the next bit that much faster.

It is unreasonable to expect random players you encounter to meet those standards in content that does not demand that type and level of performance.

The test of whether or not someone is performing to a reasonable standard is whether the content can be cleared with all members performing at the same level. How do we know it's unreasonable for someone to AFK through Praetorium? Because if everyone was AFK, the content would not be cleared. How do we know it's unreasonable to only auto-attack through Castrum Abania? Because if everyone was auto-attacking, the content would not be cleared.

Tank isn't chain pulling wall to wall? That's fine. You don't have to pull wall to wall to clear the content.

Healer doesn't want to be green DPS? That's fine. As long as the healer is keeping the rest of the group alive, their DPS isn't needed to clear the content.

If someone wants the members of their party to all meet a certain standard, then they should be be pre-forming the party before they queue (like one would do for Savage where those things do start to matter). If you're going to use Duty Finder's random matchmaking, expect a random result. Expecting anything else is unreasonable.

No Savage isn't casual whatsoever. It takes time to gear up and learn the mechanics appropriately. It's not a trip to the bathroom.

Any good crafter can make the gear you need for Savage in about an hour.

Yes, it will take time to learn mechanics but that still doesn't make it hardcore.

Never said someone can clear Savage by going to the bathroom.

You sound like you have an investment in wanting to believe Savage is more than it really is - a more challenging form of casual content.

Games are for casuals. There, I said it. Games are for people who don't have anything better to do with their time.

As for FFXIV.. it offers multiple challenges and battle content isn't necessarily restricted to casual content. The Ishgard Restoration proved dedication is rewarded. In fact, I managed to score there too, albeit not far.

I've got the Pteranodon. I grinded it out casually over 18 months. That too was casual content even if more challenging compared to standard crafting.

The only reason more crafters don't have it is because it was an annoying long grind for an uninspired reward (yay, I can ride Aswang that I kill for my weekly B hunt bill?) so they didn't bother wasting their time.

The Expert grind is actually a good example of why reliance on completion rates is not a true indicator of difficulty and skill. A lot of people skip content they're perfectly capable of doing because they just don't find the content or the reward interesting enough to go to the effort.