Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[Velnora]

Like I said, A crux, not the crux, implying your argument had multiple cruxes to it, each of which I addressed. Plus if anything I think Bozja is an exemplary example of what they could do with open world if they tried and to be quite frank I think it'd be a failure not to try and make that the norm for open world. - I don't necessarily disagree with your point about resources though, given the surge of player growth, more resources would be nice. But they've definitely not been slacking on the content part, especially when you take into account Ocean Fishing and Ishgard Restoration. Aside from the delayed Ultimate.

They've just simply poured those resources elsewhere, which to be frank I would much prefer they attempt to do that and release fresh content, versus just maintaining content schedule for the sake of it.

It was never a crux to begin with. That was in response to someone bringing up said content, as a "whataboutism". This thread is regarding dungeons. Not Bozja, not Ishgard, not ocean fishing. These false ultimatums are stupid, and serve as nothing but to act as vessels for SE apologists.

"versus just maintaining content schedule for the sake of it."
That's part of the issue.

[Kaurhz]

It was never a crux to begin with. That was in response to someone bringing up said content, as a "whataboutism". This thread is regarding dungeons. Not Bozja, not Ishgard, not ocean fishing. These false ultimatums are stupid, and serve as nothing but to act as vessels for SE apologists.

"versus just maintaining content schedule for the sake of it."
That's part of the issue.

and I merely disagreed with the points you were making in your response, I'm well aware of what this discussion is about, and taking into account I see a recurrence of the 'content cut / less dungeons' argument I'm going to beg to differ, and as I said those cuts have just been poured elsewhere and complaining that it was poured elsewhere just has the potential to strifle innovation in fear that people will moan cuz "Muh dungeons"

This has nothing to do with apologists either, I would argue people are just getting tired of this self-same 'less dungeons / less content argument whilst subsequently practically ignoring every other piece of content they've added instead. People complaining or stating the decrease in number of dungeons whilst failing to ignore what Bozja actually expanded on in terms of combat content is just a strange notion to me which arguably more than sufficed for those decrease in dungeons.

[Jirah]

Without even looking I can already feel a argument between those who simply don’t care or like the content as is and want it to remain stagnate, and those that see potential in it and want the concept or instances to be expanded on.

I’ve argued this for 2 expansions straight and it’s literally gotten worse over time. From “gee these mechanics are predictable” to “Gee I felt nothing doing this as a DPS” to such a degree not even Minilv can make it better with how few mechanics are in them, how undertuned they are and how little tank and DPS responsibility is given. I did Solm and a DPS had to drop a meteor, crazy concept but when was the last time a DPS had any engagement besides spam a aoe? It’s even more odd cuz the leveling between expansions is ok Mt Gulg and Qitana Raval were nice and it’s getting to a point where some early ARR instances are proving to be superior than the 80s with only Amourat being a clear stand out the very first one

[Velnora]

and I merely disagreed with the points you were making in your response, I'm well aware of what this discussion is about, and taking into account I see a recurrence of the 'content cut / less dungeons' argument I'm going to beg to differ, and as I said those cuts have just been poured elsewhere and complaining that it was poured elsewhere just has the potential to strifle innovation in fear that people will moan cuz "Muh dungeons"

This has nothing to do with apologists either, I would argue people are just getting tired of this self-same 'less dungeons / less content argument whilst subsequently practically ignoring every other piece of content they've added instead. People complaining or stating the decrease in number of dungeons whilst failing to ignore what Bozja actually expanded on in terms of combat content is just a strange notion to me which arguably more than sufficed for those decrease in dungeons.

The initial argument was not even less dungeons; it was over the quality of said dungeons. People are getting tired over the absolute shit state of dungeons.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Ah the content talk. Need i remind everyone that SB was able to deliver us more dungeons than shb whilst also not cutting out on deep dungeon,allied beast tribe quests, and hildibrand quests? Not to mention giving us an entire housing district and FOUR eureka zones as opposed to the 2 bozjan zones we got. Sure, we got 3 raids out of bozja, but does that really equate to the loss of dungeons and deep dungeon bosses we got? ShB expert dungeons are really not any better than sb expert dungeons and yet theyre fewer in number. Please someone blame covid for this because i can go on about the things that were missing long before covid was a thing as ive kept keen track of it all.

So unless you literally have the timetables of effort/production in your hands from SE staff, kindly don't speak of an industry you have no remote understanding of.

Ill speak about it as much as i want. I pay a sub, i can criticize and point out problems as much as i see fit, although i know thats a very foreign thing to do when it comes to this game.

[FrogDog]

No, it's only a 'reduction in content' when viewed strictly from the bias perspective of a specific content scope. "We have less dungeons." This is a long tired, dead argument that's been disproven time and time again.

It's been deboonked. We really got lots of content!

Just don't notice we have less dungeons, which means one dungeon in expert roulette will be there for 7+ months. Matoya's has been in circulation since December 2020.

Oh and don't pay attention to no Deep Dungeon. It's not like that's content that people really like or anything.

Forget that Bozja and Zadnor are two really ugly and plain zones that look like an unfinished terrain map, versus what we got in Eureka.

Never you mind that we didn't get a completion quest for beast tribes, nor did we get Hildy.

I stand around my house or in cities because there's just so much content to do.

[Kyrj]

Would like some mechanics where the 4 players are split up to do a small puzzle or something and can only get to the boss when all 4 players do what's needed. Or have some sneak off during a boss fight to trigger something/ect.

This will never happen outside of something like Savages. SE is too scared to put any responsibilities on any one player during a dungeon (outside of their role) for fear of them messing up and people getting angry at them.

[Velnora]

It's been deboonked. We really got lots of content!

Just don't notice we have less dungeons, which means one dungeon in expert roulette will be there for 7+ months. Matoya's has been in circulation since December 2020.

Oh and don't pay attention to no Deep Dungeon. It's not like that's content that people really like or anything.

Forget that Bozja and Zadnor are two really ugly and plain zones that look like an unfinished terrain map, versus what we got in Eureka.

Never you mind that we didn't get a completion quest for beast tribes, nor did we get Hildy.

I stand around my house or in cities because there's just so much content to do.

This is the part that always makes me lol. People claim there is so much content, yet if they aren't in an instance, they are just standing around Limsa.

[Anhra]

It isn't just Dungeons that are becoming more and more style over substance, you can find this happening in most Gameplay elements in this Game, especially in the way how Jobs are being designed since Stormblood.

It always makes me think that the Dev's have absolutely no faith in the Playerbase and only prefer to cater further and further to toxic casualism, just because they know that all the Yoshi P. Evangelists will forgive them any sins anyway and lash out at everyone giving out critic, without even trying to understand both sides of the argument.

[linayar]

Right. The way it's ran is poorly designed. You don't run it for the content. You run it for the bribe.

And that's fine. Most forms of repeatable content have rewards to justify that repetition. Some contents are fun the first time around, and some contents are fun enough to repeat with the right incentives.

Also, there is always alternative content. But while there are other contents that I can do to get the rewards that Expert roulette offers, doing the dungeon is just more fun for me, so that's what I choose.