FF14 is not made for hardcore players.

[Shin96]

If someone wants to become great at video games, being a speed runner, ect. I wish them all the best. But being good at video games isn't important.

And so is art and entertainment. Comedy, the list goes on.

Everything has its place in this world. It's like an ecosystem, you can fill your belly with potatoes, but your soul can only be nourished by art and introspective.

It's the same with video games. Skyrim can be considered therapeutic in some way. Speedruns are a marvel of exploitation of in-game systems achieving records unthinkable to some. It's all for the records. I recommend taking a look at Karl Jobst YouTube channel to learn more about it.

Therefore, being good at a video game is important. It gives people energy and motivation in times of strife. It's pure dedication in achieving. Life isn't all physical and manual labor.

[EirolOcarrol]

Therefore, being good at a video game is important.

Not any more so than relaxing in Animal Crossing.

[SdeSpencer]

And so is art and entertainment. Comedy, the list goes on.

Everything has its place in this world. It's like an ecosystem, you can fill your belly with potatoes, but your soul can only be nourished by art and introspective.

It's the same with video games. Skyrim can be considered therapeutic in some way. Speedruns are a marvel of exploitation of in-game systems achieving records unthinkable to some. It's all for the records. I recommend taking a look at Karl Jobst YouTube channel to learn more about it.

Therefore, being good at a video game is important. It gives people energy and motivation in times of strife. It's pure dedication in achieving. Life isn't all physical and manual labor.

i mean this is true, but ultimately that wasn't the argument being made against. the context of that statement was the "best and brightest" statement. Being good at video games is something important to the individual, but games shouldn't be made for the "best of the best". there's a basic expectation of competence sure (though in my personal experience, i tend to find people having toxic overly-high-standards is FAR more common than someone simply being opposed to learning the basics), but ultimately games shouldn't be made so only the people who are "willing to put in the effort" will be able to get anywhere. Being good at video games is a skill yeah, and at some level it's worth noting, but it's not a skill that should be used to push people out of playing a thing. Same way that yeah, there's merit in being good at art and comedy, but being good at those things isn't a prerequisite for enjoying yourself with them.

[Shin96]

i mean this is true, but ultimately that wasn't the argument being made against. the context of that statement was the "best and brightest" statement. Being good at video games is something important to the individual, but games shouldn't be made for the "best of the best". there's a basic expectation of competence sure (though in my personal experience, i tend to find people having toxic overly-high-standards is FAR more common than someone simply being opposed to learning the basics), but ultimately games shouldn't be made so only the people who are "willing to put in the effort" will be able to get anywhere. Being good at video games is a skill yeah, and at some level it's worth noting, but it's not a skill that should be used to push people out of playing a thing. Same way that yeah, there's merit in being good at art and comedy, but being good at those things isn't a prerequisite for enjoying yourself with them.

There's a place or room for every player. People shouldn't be locked out of content on their level of skills alone however, the same goes for toxic casualism. It's more common nowadays.

As for effort... well, life is effort. Some people argue it's a game and fantasy so why bring in the real-life counterpart of working. Others argue it's the only way to be satisfied with your rewards. The developers have to figure out the balance here.

[EirolOcarrol]

the same goes for toxic casualism. It's more common nowadays.

I haven't come across a single instance of what people are calling "toxic casualism". While I've seen plenty of elitism.

Including in this thread itself.

[Shin96]

I haven't come across a single instance of what people are calling "toxic casualism". While I've seen plenty of elitism.

Including in this thread itself.

There is plenty of that. The forums are not indicative of the general playerbase I remind.

Toxic casualism means not being able to carry your own weight and dislike players for playing better than you. Refusing to adapt when it's needed. I see this everyday while playing FFXIV.

Elitism is inevitable and some people are arrogant in nature. But the difference between them and casuals is they play better and don't waste my time needlessly.

[lezard21]

If OP had spent 1/4 of the time it took him to conduct this research into instead getting gud we wouldn't be having this 28 page conversation.

Like fr some people spent way too much time trying to justify why they are bad and why the world should accept them as such than in putting the minimum amount of effort into improving

[Jojoya]

There's a place or room for every player. People shouldn't be locked out of content on their level of skills alone however, the same goes for toxic casualism. It's more common nowadays.

As for effort... well, life is effort. Some people argue it's a game and fantasy so why bring in the real-life counterpart of working. Others argue it's the only way to be satisfied with your rewards. The developers have to figure out the balance here.

There may be a place or room for every player, but all those places and rooms won't occur in a single game. No game can be that all-encompassing.

Like it or not, MMOs are a casual playground. The development and operating costs are too high not to do so. Same for games made by any for-profit company. They're going to focus on casual players because that's where profits are found.

What the "best of the best" should be looking for are the passion projects created by small indie developers. Because the goal isn't profit, those developers can focus on creating very challenging content.

[Izscha]

There may be a place or room for every player, but all those places and rooms won't occur in a single game. No game can be that all-encompassing.

Like it or not, MMOs are a casual playground. The development and operating costs are too high not to do so. Same for games made by any for-profit company. They're going to focus on casual players because that's where profits are found.

What the "best of the best" should be looking for are the passion projects created by small indie developers. Because the goal isn't profit, those developers can focus on creating very challenging content.

Casuals are and will always be there to be the piggy bank, but no one do cares about them in the slightest.
You throw them some stuff and they're happy that's it.

[Shin96]

There may be a place or room for every player, but all those places and rooms won't occur in a single game. No game can be that all-encompassing.

Like it or not, MMOs are a casual playground. The development and operating costs are too high not to do so. Same for games made by any for-profit company. They're going to focus on casual players because that's where profits are found.

What the "best of the best" should be looking for are the passion projects created by small indie developers. Because the goal isn't profit, those developers can focus on creating very challenging content.

I think the developers have done a good job to encompass both player mindsets. I haven't felt underwhelmed whatsoever, Delubrum Reginae was a breath of fresh air.

That's debattable. FFXIV offers Savage content. Clearly the developers enjoy creating more complex content.

Except small indie developers don't create games on the same level as SE. I've played a few, most of them aren't anywhere on the same level of quality.