"Everyone's so open and friendly" is a lie

[LittleImp]

It's circumstantial, isn't it? There have always been WoW players who have either moved to FFXIV or started to play both games. The difference is that there seems to be a lot more recently and it's being done more publicly. As far as I know, those terms are recent terms, especially refugee.

They aren't really new. They've been in use in the same context since as far back as Legion, which was actually still a time of success for WoW.

And I disagree that they are used as generic insults. They are used as a label, sure, but people use labels to identify. It's what people associate with those labels that determine whether it's a positive usage or negative. Streamers welcoming new WoW players can title their stream with "WoW refugees are welcomed." If anything, the term refugee is an insult for WoW, as if it's a game that has refugees, not the refugees.

I see them used as insults pretty frequently, usually as a way to explain why someone is playing poorly. I've even been called a WoW refugee nonsensically a bunch of times, usually when someone gets angry in a prog or learning party. One time I had a healer in a dungeon get extremely angry that I was pulling big and "facing my back towards the mobs" as a tank, and they proceeded to repeatedly and baselessly accuse me of being a WoW refugee and went on a rant for the entire remainder of the dungeon about how all WoW players are stupid. I've seen similar things happen to friends; if you browse r/talesfromDF you'll see it fairly frequently in both the posts themselves, and the comments. A lot of the time when someone recounts a negative experience in a dungeon, people will immediately start saying things like "must have been a WoW refugee".

Why would that be interesting? You would expect to find people that are happy with the game as is then not.

It's not normal to repeatedly imply someone is stupid because they're struggling to register a code and think the mogstation UI could be improved. Some 14 players tend to be so ardent in their defense of the game as a whole, that they'll take bizarrely aggressive stances defending against extremely minor, and honestly well-founded quibbles and criticisms about certain aspects of the game. The Mog-station thing is just one example of many I've seen over the years. "WoW bad, FFXIV good" isn't just some random thing someone made up to assail FFXIV. It's a humorous statement about community attitudes that came about because a lot of people started collectively picking up on what was going on.

[Rinhi]

if you browse r/talesfromDF

everyone that thinks this community is nothing but nice should read that place, just to see how many of those 'nice' players are super toxic

[linayar]

everyone that thinks this community is nothing but nice

What about those who think this community is nice enough?

If the community is super toxic, you wouldn't need a special place to collect bad experiences. It will just be the norm of what people expect.

[Rinhi]

What about those who think this community is nice enough?

this might come as a surprise, but I do think it's nice enough in a sense, as I think it's not a bad one but it could really use a little bit less handholding/coddling

If the community is super toxic, you wouldn't need a special place to collect bad experiences. It will just be the norm of what people expect.

lol, lmao even
you know why they had to make that place? because everything in that sub got - and would get - downvoted to oblivion and further by the 'nice' community
ffxiv is filled with YPYT drivel, filled with people enabling 0 dps healers in high lvl content, filled with players that go at your throat if you insist that one should learn their class a bit, ones that attack you for 'ruining players fun' by wall-to-walling or asking the tank/dps to use their combo and not only an uncombo'd finisher etc
of course people will make a subreddit where they can talk about their bad experiences if talking about it on the mainsub would get you shunned/attacked/harassed/downvoted

[linayar]

Because they're part of the community?? They're ffxiv players who are active in ffxiv platforms. Everyone has equal parts in representing the community.

Using you logic, no community is toxic because they can just say "no no, that person break the TOS/toxic, they're not with us". Pretty convenient I'd say.

Yes, it is pretty convenient. That's why the ToS matters for the community. It's what helps to protect the community from bad actors, though not perfectly, still better than not having it.

lol, lmao even
you know why they had to make that place? because everything in that sub got - and would get - downvoted to oblivion and further by the 'nice' community
ffxiv is filled with YPYT drivel, filled with people enabling 0 dps healers in high lvl content, filled with players that go at your throat if you insist that one should learn their class a bit, ones that attack you for 'ruining players fun' by wall-to-walling or asking the tank/dps to use their combo and not only an uncombo'd finisher etc
of course people will make a subreddit where they can talk about their bad experiences if talking about it on the mainsub would get you shunned/attacked/harassed/downvoted

Well, that's my point. People have disagreements (and that's fine for a community), and that's why the complaints of one subreddit is not as universal as some might think.

[Rinhi]

Well, that's my point. People have disagreements (and that's fine for a community), and that's why the complaints of one subreddit is not as universal as some might think.

your point would have merit if people could freely express their experiences and frustrations without being attacked by rabid horde of cultists that's the mainsub
never said the community was super toxic, anyway

[linayar]

your point would have merit if people could freely express their experiences and frustrations without being attacked by rabid horde of cultists that's the mainsub
never said the community was super toxic, anyway

So you want places where people just agree with you?

[LittleImp]

everyone that thinks this community is nothing but nice should read that place, just to see how many of those 'nice' players are super toxic

That subreddit is an interesting place because the toxicity comes from all angles. There's examples of toxicity in the chatlogs and stories, but there's also an insane amount of toxicity in the comments coming from the people who browse it for validation as well. It's a weird space where both genuine elitism and genuine toxic casualism are constantly on full display, and is basically a great place to see some of the worst aspects of the community in their natural habitat. A nightmare zone where you'll see phrases like "You pull it you tank it" and "Low orange parse" within 5 minutes of eachother haha.

[Michieltjuhh]

And I disagree that they are used as generic insults. They are used as a label, sure, but people use labels to identify. It's what people associate with those labels that determine whether it's a positive usage or negative. Streamers welcoming new WoW players can title their stream with "WoW refugees are welcomed." If anything, the term refugee is an insult for WoW, as if it's a game that has refugees, not the refugees.

I can think of a historic label or two.. or a dozen, used to identify people, that will get you in trouble if you use them (with good reason), while being considered 'normal' back in the day.

I see them used as insults pretty frequently, usually as a way to explain why someone is playing poorly. I've even been called a WoW refugee nonsensically a bunch of times, usually when someone gets angry in a prog or learning party. One time I had a healer in a dungeon get extremely angry that I was pulling big and "facing my back towards the mobs" as a tank, and they proceeded to repeatedly and baselessly accuse me of being a WoW refugee and went on a rant for the entire remainder of the dungeon about how all WoW players are stupid. I've seen similar things happen to friends; if you browse r/talesfromDF you'll see it fairly frequently in both the posts themselves, and the comments. A lot of the time when someone recounts a negative experience in a dungeon, people will immediately start saying things like "must have been a WoW refugee".

This is quite amusing to me, because in my experience having played both games at a high level I find that the average player in WoW is a lot better than the average player in FF14, because WoW fosters a toxic elitism mentality where people have to improve and perform to succeed while FF14 fosters a toxic casualism mentality where players get rewarded for underperforming just as much as the ones doing all the work, with any way of measuring performance being forbidden.

For example, the amount of times I see people go through Castrum Lacus Litore, Delubrum Reginae and The Dalriada while refusing to pop a 600 gil Essence is staggering. They then proceed to warm the floor for the majority of encounters. And you'll be crucified if you don't accept this as the norm. Some of them are new players in which case it's fine - ironically in many cases they're the supposed "WoW refugees" that don't know about Essences and don't know the mechanics yet - but there's plenty of high merit stacked players doing this as well. That's your FF14 veterans right there; the pinnacle of the great FF14 community.