Design of DRK and PLD

[Lyth]

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Why is it that in many games, a player's 'ultimate attack' is gated behind some form of resource gauge? I'm not just talking about Final Fantasy as a series and its Limit Break/Trance/Overdrive/Quickening systems. You see it come up in other genres as well, including fighting games, and even team based PvP games like Overwatch. Why don't you just Omnislash on a fixed recast timer?

One thing that makes MCH and now RPR's resource systems interesting is that they have their burst windows set up as a sort of 'personal limit break'. The limitation of this approach is that you have to pretty much dedicate a resource bar (Heat/Shroud) to the one action. But that generally happens anyways. If you have two use-on-demand actions competing for the same resource, you'll just use the one that gives you more potency. If Living Shadow wasn't gated behind a timer, you'd never want to use Bloodspiller.

The other nice thing about resource systems is that they allow you to be a bit less predictable with your button presses, because little variations in gauge gains can result in you being at different resource levels on different pulls. This is especially true if you set up a number of possible conditions for resource gains, much like the limit break system does. For example, if DRK gained a small amount of blood every time their bubble shields absorb damage in addition to the standard combo based gains, you have a system that plays out a bit less predictably.

You can do the same thing with timers and resets, but it's a bit more heavy-handed.

What stands out about MCH and DRG's respective base combo systems is that they feel a bit different from the rest. After spending ARR juggling Path and Eye, most damage combo/maintenance combo sets feel very samey. DRG is different in that the combo chains themselves are quite a bit longer, and MCH's setup with Drill being roughly on a seven GCD multiple makes it functionally a variable four step combo of sorts. The common theme is that the order of the button presses gets swapped up in varying ways.

Either way, I think that we need at least a few jobs out there that aren't completely predictable in their button presses and force you to react dynamically to either what you have active (resets) or your current resource level. But players have to buy into the idea that a bit of randomness and unpredictability is good for us. It means that there's a higher mechanical skill cap.

[Shurrikhan]

Why is it that in many games, a player's 'ultimate attack' is gated behind some form of resource gauge? I'm not just talking about Final Fantasy as a series and its Limit Break/Trance/Overdrive/Quickening systems. You see it come up in other genres as well, including fighting games, and even team based PvP games like Overwatch. Why don't you just Omnislash on a fixed recast timer?

I'm cool with backloaded damage; I just don't quite see why it'd be any more "organic" than a CD when it's used at a precisely regular integral unless faced with downtime (in which case one is merely punished for being a resource- and therefore more uptime-dependent job in any non-continuous fight).

I guess I could see it if (A) those gauges just had a larger bankable maximum (in generation time) so you could actually delay for and work around various CD periods and/or (B) the kits weren't otherwise discouraged from using Skill Speed, so it'd actually feel like we have an effect on the frequency of those 'ultimates'?

Due to the flat 1.5 non-SkS-scaling GCDs and present examples time-to-cap, we just don't really seem to have that, but if those two things get fixed, I'd love to push some of the APM bustle of the opener back to later in the fight so we don't feel so "on-off" or one-note.

The other nice thing about resource systems is that they allow you to be a bit less predictable with your button presses, because little variations in gauge gains can result in you being at different resource levels on different pulls.

That feels like the very first thing any raider would want to be rid of, but admittedly, the need to do so (to maximize uptime, to have a tank-pull, etc.) is itself gameplay, so I quite like that.

MCH's setup with Drill being roughly on a seven GCD multiple makes it functionally a variable four step combo of sorts. The common theme is that the order of the button presses gets swapped up in varying ways.

If I ever actually had to decide on which CD-weaponskill to use first on MCH, instead of being able to cycle the very same order at all times with no conflict, I would agree.

I don't think MCH or DRG force button presses to get swapped up in varying ways (except perhaps shallowly in the case of Fang & Claw -> Wheeling Thrust and Wheeling Thrust -> Fang & Claw -- though one could just hit both buttons and queue whichever one is possible at that moment), but I'd be all for a job that actually did cause us to swap them up.

[Tex_Mex]

Either way, I think that we need at least a few jobs out there that aren't completely predictable in their button presses and force you to react dynamically to either what you have active (resets) or your current resource level. But players have to buy into the idea that a bit of randomness and unpredictability is good for us. It means that there's a higher mechanical skill cap.

It is interesting to me that this sentence almost perfectly describes DNC and RDM gameplay. Random Procs completely determine what skills you use and there is no set rotation. The line I quoted above suggests that these types of systems should theoretically "increase the mechanical skill cap." In practice, we see that this isn't true for FFXIV. DNC and RDM are considered two of the easiest jobs to play at a high level in the game. Perhaps, if the jobs had more complex proc mechanics, instead of the mindless 50% chance procs they currently have, your comment would line up with what we see in the game. It's also interesting that you used DRG and MCN gameplay to argue your point, when these are also considered to be some of the simplest jobs to master.

I don't really agree or disagree with the premise of your argument, I just thought this was interesting.

[Undeadfire]

DNC and RDM are considered two of the easiest jobs to play at a high level in the game.

Technically, DNC requires Technical Dance casted on time, sharp, prog wise it isn't very strong, DNC very depends on team mates for their usefulness. Rdm has only been treated as a progression job and gets destroyed by Smn/Blm on high end. Blm is the strongest caster out of the lot, problem is you have to cater strategies around them.