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  1. #1
    Player
    Mikey_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,555
    Character
    Mike Aettir
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    No, it doesn't. Any set of jobs can have different but (roughly) equally-valuable synergies. (See Overwatch, for instance, whenever it's in a good patch. For almost all hero/job choices, the way you play is more dependent upon your comp than not, and yet even at the professional level, it could take a month or more for even a map-specific meta to outperform comfort picks or intentionally off-meta --harder to counter-- comps.)

    Having synergies isn't damning; it just means you have to balance comps, not only individual jobs.

    It just comes back to whether players actually want XIV to be a team game beyond merely picking an angle, and perhaps an 'out' or 'in' position if there are more ranged than melee, before performing their mostly unchanged T&S dance. So far, that seems a no. We seemingly like as little effect from playing with others as possible, or indeed of any chance, anything outside our control.
    What you have to remember is that balancing between PVE and PVP have different things to be considered. Whilst PVE is being balanced against each other to fight a static encounter, PVP have to be balanced not only between each other, but the dynamic environment of a human on the other side.

    This is why SE balances in each role. All the tanks are similar enough that you can choose any and be fine. Start adding synergy between 2 tanks, and you would have to add it for all different compositions, otherwise, you start having imbalances. That is 6 different combos for the tanks, not much, but it is still something to think about. Then you have the fact the synergies will not apply in dungeons, which SE do balance around.

    If anyone can give examples of potential synergies, I am willing to look at it as there might be something I have overlooked.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,874
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    What you have to remember is that balancing between PVE and PVP have different things to be considered. Whilst PVE is being balanced against each other to fight a static encounter, PVP have to be balanced not only between each other, but the dynamic environment of a human on the other side.
    You seem to be forgetting that they're also balanced separately, with entirely separate toolkits between PvP and PvE for each job?
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,874
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    Start adding synergy between 2 tanks, and you would have to add it for all different compositions, otherwise, you start having imbalances.
    Yes, obviously. Which creates exponentially more work because --when it's not just a mere +X% damage by which to shuffle numbers on a meter and then unshuffle them back in a resultant log-- it's exponentially more gameplay available to each job in party play. The question is merely whether it's worth it, whether we actually want team play, or mostly just simultaneous play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey_R View Post
    If anyone can give examples of potential synergies, I am willing to look at it as there might be something I have overlooked.
    Honestly, most would be dependent upon actual undermechanical depth, such as not all elements doing the exact same thing (solely raw damage), let alone the same thing as physical damage. Those synergies are things that come pretty quickly and naturally out of fire having some appended mechanic, of wind having an appended mechanic, of multi-strike attacks actually having a intuitive difference from big, single-hit attacks, of attacks that seem--in their animations--to knock enemies to the ground or into the air, of mobs that have more ways to manipulate their behavior than just to be at the top a damage-times-modifier list (a.k.a. Enmity), etc.

    Flare goes off in the middle of the enemy pack and for that brief moment, the Ninja has n-1 shadows to jump to. The White Mage draws a torrent from the lifestream (literally just taking advantage of ground on which heal or Holy casts previous landed) or draws up an occluding boulder (ala Stoneshield / ground-targeted Stoneskin) and the Ninja can use that block line of sight between enemies and himself and go into Stealth. The White Mage can project Fluid Aura through Suiton, adding that much potency-to-HP to its wave as it heals and cleanses allies, damages and purges enemies. Etc. Etc.

    It's just a matter of having more to our abilities than mere timers, resource gauges, and linear unlock sequences so that a battle doesn't almost precisely as it did, save for perhaps holding an extra GCD before deploying oGCDs in one's opener, in party play as it does against a striking dummy. The synergies form simply from the types and classifications that'd come into play. That's not to say they wouldn't need a fair bit of balance so that, say, a Black&White NIN/BLM, DRK, WHM, PLD doesn't become the go-to speedrunning group for hard dungeons or the like or that you don't end up just stacking Monks and Warriors for the stagger they might induce on adds in a given Savage raid such that you don't even need a second healer. Such wouldn't be "easy". But it's not a fatally flawed course of action to have synergies, nor absurd to want more from party play. It's just more work... mostly because there's then more gameplay actually there.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 11-23-2021 at 12:28 PM.