Question about easy dps classes.

[Enjuden]

SAM missing kenki due to the wrong positional adds up a lot over a fight,
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...h.jms2756k5sz6

the stuff on the balance is more in-depth about it

The math is LITERALLY on the video link and you're still pushing blatantly false information on samurai losing a lot. Holy moly. Nobody's saying that not hitting positionals is good. You could literally click something and see the numbers right in front of you and you're STILL going 'Yea, nuh, monk loses less '

If you're trolling, congrats you won.

Edit: You know what. I'll just put it here.

[SaberMaxwell]

The math is LITERALLY on the video link and you're still pushing blatantly false information on samurai losing a lot. Holy moly. Nobody's saying that not hitting positionals is good. You could literally click something and see the numbers right in front of you and you're STILL going 'Yea, nuh, monk loses less '

If you're trolling, congrats you won.

Edit: You know what. I'll just put it here.

No, what you've got is anecdotal data gathering with some conclusions drawn from that data. He only did one run each for both positionals and non-positionals as well; take into account gear levels of the jobs are not equal too. This leads to little oddities like Monk doing less DPS even with positionals than all the other DPS, and subjects the data heavily to critical hit RNG and direct hit RNG. The best thing he could have done would have been to post those percentages as well for full visibility...that and maybe run the trial more than once. The study is admirable but extremely flawed.

1:53: "Take into account I only did one run for each job so the numbers can be a little bit skewed depending on, again, that crit luck."

If we take the data to be accurate, then on top of the raw numbers we should have also had percentage comparisons, which if we put those together we get:

MNK: 86% w/out positionals
SAM: 98% w/out positionals
NIN: 96% w/out positionals
DRG: 98% w/out positionals

Of course, all that is predicated as well on these being three-minute limited trials.

Monk as the odd one out at 86% damage without positionals, assuming the same level of skill and crit/dh rng affected all four jobs. Which we know by default are problems his study was subject to by his own outlined terms. With that said, their core argument "SAM loses more than MNK" still doesn't pan out.

What they presented, however, is math. Kenki = Potency is not something that's going to change with trial count. Converting a potency per kenki amount into a potency gain per minute amount is math. Potency gain per minute is not something that's going to change by trial count. What they should have done to support their position, because it's not one I think I fully agree with either, is post both the potency lost / minute of not doing positionals for both Samurai and Monk.

[Enjuden]

No, what you've got is anecdotal data gathering with some conclusions drawn from that data. He only did one run each for both positionals and non-positionals as well; take into account gear levels of the jobs are not equal too. This leads to little oddities like Monk doing less DPS even with positionals than all the other DPS, and subjects the data heavily to critical hit RNG and direct hit RNG. The best thing he could have done would have been to post those percentages as well for full visibility...that and maybe run the trial more than once. The study is admirable but extremely flawed.

1:53: "Take into account I only did one run for each job so the numbers can be a little bit skewed depending on, again, that crit luck."

If we take the data to be accurate, then on top of the raw numbers we should have also had percentage comparisons, which if we put those together we get:

MNK: 86% w/out positionals
SAM: 98% w/out positionals
NIN: 96% w/out positionals
DRG: 98% w/out positionals

Of course, all that is predicated as well on these being three-minute limited trials.

Monk as the odd one out at 86% damage without positionals, assuming the same level of skill and crit/dh rng affected all four jobs. Which we know by default are problems his study was subject to by his own outlined terms. With that said, their core argument "SAM loses more than MNK" still doesn't pan out.

What they presented, however, is math. Kenki = Potency is not something that's going to change with trial count. Converting a potency per kenki amount into a potency gain per minute amount is math. Potency gain per minute is not something that's going to change by trial count. What they should have done to support their position, because it's not one I think I fully agree with either, is post both the potency lost / minute of not doing positionals for both Samurai and Monk.

Their core argument is crap and anyone who even remotely played this game would know that. It's too bad they decided to just ignore an anecdote that with any amount of brainpower would show 'Hey, this class does less dps per minute without positionals' when a dummy is the most consistent thing you can get. Why? Because it defeats their argument with a single anecdote that is easily replicated. At least someone decided to bring up the anecdote vs data argument so a discussion can be done.

It really isn't hard to look at it yourself. Good thing we can't post stuff like that here or we'll be banned, so we can just make things up and pretend we're right.

Fight's ten minutes long? Multiply the numbers by 3.3~. 8 minutes? 2.6~ That's not counting crits or adding in the fact that a monk loses countless amount of procs from the guaranteed crit with bootshine.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Their core argument is crap and anyone who even remotely played this game would know that. It's too bad they decided to just ignore an anecdote that with any amount of brainpower would show 'Hey, this class does less dps per minute without positionals' when a dummy is the most consistent thing you can get. Why? Because it defeats their argument with a single anecdote that is easily replicated. At least someone decided to bring up the anecdote vs data argument so a discussion can be done.

It really isn't hard to look at it yourself. Good thing we can't post stuff like that here or we'll be banned, so we can just make things up and pretend we're right.

Fight's ten minutes long? Multiply the numbers by 3.3~. 8 minutes? 2.6~ That's not counting crits or adding in the fact that a monk loses countless amount of procs from the guaranteed crit with bootshine.

But no dps would be hitting from the front, so at least half the positionals would be gotten, and realistically, mnks would just sit on the rear and avoid flank positionals. Even lazy dps would get bootshines in.


This would probably change the numbers a bit.