QoL suggestions for WHM.

[Silver-Strider]

I mentioned it before that the 45s timer is awkward to work with since you're going to miss raid buff windows. That's why I moved the cooldown timer back but increased the MP restore. Additionally, while I'm not against Protect returning, putting an MP refresh there seems very strange since it feels like that's something that should be a part of the buff. I'm not saying it's bad, but I will say it feels weird. I just don't think Assize can stay as a Heal/DPS tool anymore, and it needs to be split into its components. This way, we can put both things on a 2 charge, 45s timer and get the most out of both the healing aspects and the damage aspects of Assize.

The only other option to make Assize useful for a healing tool would be to put a 2nd charge on it and I'm not really sure how to feel about that personally but that's the topic of another thread (literally). On the one hand, it allows for delaying the use of Assize until needed for healing without really losing its damage potency but on the other hand, its realistically only adding 1-2 extra usages in any given encounter, barring those with long transitions that would allow for both charges to recover. Then, there's the discussion on how it would effect WHM's damage output because not only are you getting that extra potency from a 2nd Assize, but you also have to consider how that type of change would reduce WHM's need to use its GCD on a heal instead of a Glare. Every Medica cast averted by Assize is another Glare cast utilized, so I'm just not sure how to really feel about it from a balance standpoint. Also, it would be another issue for the Lily System since now you're utilizing Rapture even less and the Lily system is already going into life support with the Cast time changes alone that it doesn't really need to compete with Assize as well.

As for Protect gaining an MP restore component, it was an attempt to move the MP restore from Assize. Admittedly, coupling WHM's sustain to a mitigation skill like Protect would be problematic since you couldn't really save it for Tank busters and trying to keep it on CD would just result in moments when there's little to no oncoming damage and protect would be wasted. I'm just tossing out ideas at this point to get some feedback and improve upon them. I'm just trying to address low level MP issues at this point by throwing a dart and seeing what sticks.

Putting it on PoM/Divine Seal/Temperance would mean that you'd have to wait 2 minutes for it
Putting it on Stoneskin/Divine Benison would have similar issues as Protect, albeit maybe not as severe.
Leaving it on Fluid Aura/Assize keeps the issue the same.

At this point, just give WHM Shroud of Saints back as their own personal MP buff and save me the headache

[NobleWinter]

I really miss being able to cut my agro in half with Shroud of Saints. Seeing the tank die to a buster and being the last one in the group to get auto attacked was really nice.

[Silver-Strider]

I really miss being able to cut my agro in half with Shroud of Saints. Seeing the tank die to a buster and being the last one in the group to get auto attacked was really nice.

I hate when the MT dies because of something and the OT is just watching everyone die one at a time, usually the healers 1st, before they get off their ass and do their job.
Gimme back my aggro dump plz

[inhaledcorn]

The only other option to make Assize useful for a healing tool would be to put a 2nd charge on it and I'm not really sure how to feel about that personally but that's the topic of another thread (literally). <small snip>

I'm in agreement there. I do agree that WHM's MP economy is going to be a problem come EW but giving Assize two charges seems more like a brute-force solution. I think a more elegant solution is doing what you or I suggested with Assize (damage up front with a delayed heal) and returning Fluid Aura as per my suggestion but putting it on a two charge, 30s cooldown. This way, you're getting 1500mp approximately every minute as well as the free healing from the quickened Lilies and Thin Air.

As for Protect gaining an MP restore component, it was an attempt to move the MP restore from Assize. Admittedly, coupling WHM's sustain to a mitigation skill like Protect would be problematic since you couldn't really save it for Tank busters and trying to keep it on CD would just result in moments when there's little to no oncoming damage and protect would be wasted. I'm just tossing out ideas at this point to get some feedback and improve upon them. I'm just trying to address low level MP issues at this point by throwing a dart and seeing what sticks.

Putting it on PoM/Divine Seal/Temperance would mean that you'd have to wait 2 minutes for it
Putting it on Stoneskin/Divine Benison would have similar issues as Protect, albeit maybe not as severe.
Leaving it on Fluid Aura/Assize keeps the issue the same.

At this point, just give WHM Shroud of Saints back as their own personal MP buff and save me the headache

Well, I'm not suggesting an MP restore should be on PoM, but I do think that should give reduced MP costs since it's kind of like DRK's Blood Weapon. Back in HW (and maybe StB, I don't remember), Blood Weapon would reduce TP costs or else DRK would bottom out. PoM should have that same effect since it's increasing WHM's Spell Speed, thus giving WHM more casts and further compounds WHM's MP issue.

[inhaledcorn]

Plenary Indulgence
Place 3 Confession stacks to self and nearby allies. Upon receiving HP recovery via Medica, Medica II, Cure III, or Afflatus Rapture cast by self, uses a Confession to trigger an additional healing effect. Any remaining Confession stacks heal for 200 potency per stack upon finishing its duration.
Cure Potency: 200
Duration: 15 seconds

So, I wanted to rereview something when someone brought up a good point about Plenary. The way you have it set, it behaves like Lilybell, and it also has two charges. It might be too much, especially with our propositions for Assize. Instead, I had a different idea:

Plenary Indulgence

Type: Ability

Consume a White Lily to heal self and all party members in range for a heal potency of 200.

Additional effect: Grants 400 MP

New UI element: White Lilies

White Lilies are granted when a healing spell is cast by you. Can hold up to 3.

You would generate a lily when using Medica, the initial hit of Medica II, Afflatus Rapture, Cure III, Cure I/II/Solace, and the initial application of a Regen. However, you would not gain White Lilies from the Medica II/Regen ticks.

This gives WHM more AoE oGCD healing options but at the cost of it needing a GCD to charge. That's why it also refreshes MP a bit to make up the difference. With my suggestion to Thin Air, this can also be a way to keep WHM more DPS neutral by having it feed Misery (as long as we also make Misery DPS neutral).

[AnotherPerson]

I'm in agreement there. I do agree that WHM's MP economy is going to be a problem come EW but giving Assize two charges seems more like a brute-force solution. I think a more elegant solution is doing what you or I suggested with Assize (damage up front with a delayed heal) and returning Fluid Aura as per my suggestion but putting it on a two charge, 30s cooldown. This way, you're getting 1500mp approximately every minute as well as the free healing from the quickened Lilies and Thin Air.

I'd like to point out that giving a second charge doesn't do anything to WHM's MP economy other than give you +500 MP within the span of the same fight and make the skill more flexible to heal. The charge system doesn't generate multiple charges at once, so the cooldown and number of total uses is still the same as before, but +1. The only difference is the amount of time you can delay the next activation of Assize without losing a use (use every 45 seconds on cooldown vs choosing when you want to use it between 45 to 90 seconds).


As for the OP's post, the change to reducing MP of healing spells across the board is a good decision to put it on par with AST's MP economy. The return of Stoneskin, Divine Seal, and Protect being direct upgrades of Divine Benison, Temperance, and Aquaveil respectively, is good changes at low level WHM gameplay. I'd change Fluid Aura to be an AOE attack at 150 potency instead though, mainly because it makes more sense that an AoE skill upgrades into an improved AoE skill. Stoneskin can get a slight nerf in potency as well since it seems pretty powerful at lower levels. Reducing the potency from 400 to 300 should be fine.

Buffing Afflatus Misery is also pretty good to make it feel less of a loss to use, which incentivizes using Lilies to also help manage MP economy as it becomes a 'free' healing spell + 0 MP DPS GCD skill in the long run.

I'd adjust Plenary Indulgence a bit. Giving 3 stacks that heal 200 potency when triggered by another AoE heal is fine, but I'd reduce the healing output of unconsumed stacks from 200 potency to 100 potency instead because it's really powerful otherwise. It's just a really beefed up version of Horoscope on the same cooldown, except it has a lot better synergy in WHM's AoE GCD toolkit due to the lily system.

I'd trade a 2nd charge of Tetragrammaton for a 2nd charge of Assize instead at lv 68 to be honest. With the adjustment to Plenary Indulgence, the return of Stoneskin + Divine Seal at lower levels, and adjustment to the MP cost of healing spells, I don't think we need that many more strong single target heals in our toolkit at level 70.


I can't comment on the changes to lilybell without using it in combat since I haven't tested the current lilybell yet.

[Grimoire-M]

I'd adjust Plenary Indulgence a bit. Giving 3 stacks that heal 200 potency when triggered by another AoE heal is fine, but I'd reduce the healing output of unconsumed stacks from 200 potency to 100 potency instead because it's really powerful otherwise. It's just a really beefed up version of Horoscope on the same cooldown, except it has a lot better synergy in WHM's AoE GCD toolkit due to the lily system.

Personally I’d rather put the Confession effect on Assize in order to decouple the healing from its damage. Then you could have PI pop Confession when you wanted to within reason. I’d still add charges though, just to make the damage toolkit more interesting.

I remember posting this elsewhere, but here’s those two abilities in tooltip form for reference:

Assize: Deals damage with a potency of 400 to all nearby enemies. Additional Effects: Restores 5% of MP and applies Confession II to self and all allies in range.
Confession Effect: Upon receiving HP recovery or regeneration from the next Cure, Cure II, Medica, Tetragrammaton, Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Rapture, Regen, or Medica II cast by self, Confession consumes itself for an additional heal. Potency: 200. Maximum Stacks: 4.
Cooldown 45s. Maximum Charges: 2.

Plenary Indulgence: Consumes all Confession Stacks currently on party members to heal them for 200 Potency per stack.
Cooldown: 60s.

Mind you, other abilities were changed to also apply Confession. Namely Asylum (paired with a HoT change to prevent double dipping for stacks), Temperance (Half CD, half duration, two charges), and Divine Benison (shared a cooldown with Tetra, Confession was used to make up the potency difference between the two).

Of course none of that targets WHM’s MP issues and those details were made with only the context of ShB, but I think PoM is still a good choice for the MP restore currently.

[inhaledcorn]

I'd change Fluid Aura to be an AOE attack at 150 potency instead though, mainly because it makes more sense that an AoE skill upgrades into an improved AoE skill. Stoneskin can get a slight nerf in potency as well since it seems pretty powerful at lower levels. Reducing the potency from 400 to 300 should be fine.

I think, at this point, both Fluid Aura and Assize should exist as DPS/MP tools. We've also discussed about having Assize's heal be delayed (either by tying PI to it or by having a new effect that it grants). I think putting it at 60s with 1k mp regen on top of a 2 charge, 30s Fluid Aura can make WHM's burst windows more interesting while keeping their MP economy more in-line with the other healers.

I can't comment on the changes to lilybell without using it in combat since I haven't tested the current lilybell yet.

As far as I can tell, it seems like it's a reverse Panhaima. It seems really cool if that's true.

[Silver-Strider]

I'd adjust Plenary Indulgence a bit. Giving 3 stacks that heal 200 potency when triggered by another AoE heal is fine, but I'd reduce the healing output of unconsumed stacks from 200 potency to 100 potency instead because it's really powerful otherwise. It's just a really beefed up version of Horoscope on the same cooldown, except it has a lot better synergy in WHM's AoE GCD toolkit due to the lily system.

I'd trade a 2nd charge of Tetragrammaton for a 2nd charge of Assize instead at lv 68 to be honest. With the adjustment to Plenary Indulgence, the return of Stoneskin + Divine Seal at lower levels, and adjustment to the MP cost of healing spells, I don't think we need that many more strong single target heals in our toolkit at level 70.

The reason I opted for a 2nd charge of Tetra is because it's falling behind Essential Dignity in terms of CD and Potency, even with Benediction thrown into the mix. In a 3 minute period, I'll have 4.5 Essential Dignities vs 3 Tetra for a Cure potency discrepancy of 2300 potency that Benediction would need to heal, at minimum to break even. At 6 minutes, that potency increases to 3400. For context, to pull a DRK out of Living Dead status would require a total heal potency of 3k, meaning unless I used both Benedictions to fully heal a 1hp target, you could NEVER heal enough to match Essential Dignity. The 2nd charge of Tetra would merely be to lower that gap a little bit, to make WHM's single target healing abilities at least try and keep up to AST's.

Also, wouldn't you feel that, with PI, Divine Seal and Afflatus Rapture being available at level 70 per my suggestions, that we would need a 2nd charge of Assize?

[AnotherPerson]

The reason I opted for a 2nd charge of Tetra is because it's falling behind Essential Dignity in terms of CD and Potency, even with Benediction thrown into the mix. In a 3 minute period, I'll have 4.5 Essential Dignities vs 3 Tetra for a Cure potency discrepancy of 2300 potency that Benediction would need to heal, at minimum to break even. At 6 minutes, that potency increases to 3400. For context, to pull a DRK out of Living Dead status would require a total heal potency of 3k, meaning unless I used both Benedictions to fully heal a 1hp target, you could NEVER heal enough to match Essential Dignity. The 2nd charge of Tetra would merely be to lower that gap a little bit, to make WHM's single target healing abilities at least try and keep up to AST's.

Also, wouldn't you feel that, with PI, Divine Seal and Afflatus Rapture being available at level 70 per my suggestions, that we would need a 2nd charge of Assize?

How are you calculating total Essential Dignity potency?
~1100 potency *4 uses = 4400 potency, but that's assuming the person you're healing is always at 1 HP, which isn't realistic if you plan on using it on cooldown at lv 70 (which is also why Essential Dignity gains a 2 charge system at lv 78).

From what I've seen, the formula scaling for Essential Dignity is 400 + (700* (1 - (Current Hp/Total HP)) )
At 50%, Essential Dignity is healing: 750 potency
At 30%, Essential Dignity is healing: 890 potency
At 10%, Essential Dignity is healing: 1030 potency

But that's where the lily comes in at higher levels, no? The difference in lily healing offsets the need for a second charge of Tetra, especially if you're going to make accumulating lily charges become 20 seconds at higher levels. With Divine Seal at lower levels, it covers more than enough for single target healing as well since it supercharges our lilies (this difference in lilies also increases at level 90 due to the enhanced healing trait in Endwalker). Coupled with Temperance and the buffered Plenary Indulgence, I'd rather take a flexible Assize over a second single target heal.

To heal a DRK out of Living Dead status, it takes 1 Benediction to fully heal a 1HP target, but for Essential Dignity, it takes more than 2 due to the scaling nature of the skill. According to your 3k potency DRK example, it's more apt to say it heals 1100 potency on the first use (36.667% restored), 843 to 900 on the second use (assuming some damage taken (66% restored). Just the nature of Living Dead won't let you chain more than Essential Dignities past 2 in the first place, so you'll never go past 2200 potency on healing Living Dead whereas one Benediction can instantly heal it all up.



Imo, it's not good to compare Essential Dignity and Tetragrammaton in a vacuum, because it also ignores the other parts of the toolkit that works differently in cohesion and leads to homogeneity but with skills renamed. Essential Dignity is more flexible than Benediction, but Benediction does perform better than Essential Dignity on tanks.

Personally I’d rather put the Confession effect on Assize in order to decouple the healing from its damage. Then you could have PI pop Confession when you wanted to within reason. I’d still add charges though, just to make the damage toolkit more interesting.

This sounds like a cool idea, but I would like a full list of changed effects of other skills paired with Confession to understand what you mean.

If it was just Assize that got the Confession adjustment, I would be sort of against it because it doesn't affect the lily system in any meaningful way. Why would you ever manually use lilies to proc Confession when you can just use Plenary Indulgence to consume all the stacks for you instead? It makes the existence of the skill in itself redundant, so to speak, since it doesn't contribute to anything meaningful with Plenary Indulgence's healing as it was just replaced by Assize's healing.