6.0 Story Speculations

[Wiz33]

The title of 6.0 ("Shadowbringers" or "Jet-Black Villains," depending on language) has a double meaning. On the one hand, it's obviously a reference to how the Ascians are considered to be villains associated with darkness and chaos ("shadow") by contemporary people. On the other, it's also referring to the Scions, as on the First the relative morality of light and dark are flipped due to the Flood of Light - the Scions act as "shadow" bringers by restoring the night, while Vauthry labels them villains for opposing his tyrannical rule (an epithet they wholeheartedly embrace). It's all designed to play into the morally grey narrative.

Personally while I do sympathize with them, I can't agree that the tragedies and misfortunes they've suffered even come close to justifying the things they've done. But that's just me.



Saying five words while mortally wounded doesn't constitute a conversation; and Emet-Selch was trying very hard to kill the PC and Scions at the tail end of Shadowbringers after they failed his bad faith arbitrary test of worth. Other than that, this is "can't be disproven" territory and thus not worth arguing against.

So you're saying it's sloppy writing?

As to trying to kill everyone. Did he? Who snapped Y'shtola out of the livestream? Why did he not simply kill you while you're overwhelmed with Aether at the end of The Crown of the Immaculate if he really consider you a failure at that point? Did you considered that Graha/Exarch would have died if Emet did not shoot him when he managed to absorb all your Aether? Did you notice that the arrows lands in a circle around Alphinaud and Alisaie instead of on them? Did you notice that a perfect killing shot on Ryne didn't even leave a scratch? If Hythlodaeus's shade can see that you have a fragment of Azem's soul and have another fragment walking beside you (Arbert). Emet certainly did much earlier and have alluded to it in his conversation with you. If he intends to kill you, why leave the trail of crystal to help you against Elidibus?

[Cilia]

Did he? Why did he not simply kill you while you're overwhelmed with Aether at the end of The Crown of the Immaculate? Did you considered that Graha/Exarch would have died if Emet did not shoot him when he was trying to absorb all you Aether? Did you notice that the arrow lands in a circle around Alphinaud and Alisaie instead of on them? Did you notice that a perfect killing shot on Rynedidn't even leave a scratch? If Hythlodaeus's shade can see that you have a fragment of Azem's soul and have another fragment walking beside you (Arbert). Emet certainly does and have alluded to it in his conversation with you. If he intends to kill you, why leave the trail of crystal to help you against Elidibus?

Emet-Selch doesn't kill you after the Crown of the Immaculate because he doesn't want to. His plan was to see if the PC could absorb all the Lightwardens' primordial Light and still retain their self; if they succeeded he'd acknowledge their worth and continue trying to sway the PC and Scions to his side, while if they failed he'd just wait for them to become an uber-Lightwarden and usher in the Flood of Light. Either way, he wins - but he knew from the outset the PC succeeding was a long shot (at best).

He shoots G'raha (and thus stops him from doing his heroic sacrifice) not because he wants G'raha to survive, but because his sacrificial plan would have stopped the PC from becoming an uber-Lightwarden like he wanted.

All his shots at the Scions not killing them could also be interpreted as the typical Ascian arrogance - why bother when the PC is moments away from turning into an uber-Lightwarden and killing them anyway, or restarting the Flood of Light which would also kill them? Emet-Selch can see "soul colors" but refuses to believe the PC is anything more than a "broken husk" of Azem, which is why he goes so hard into denial prior to the final showdown (since if the PC is Azem, his best friend is telling him what he's done is wrong). He does start trying to kill the PC after Ardbert's soul willingly merges with them because at that point his plan is in disarray due to an anomalous factor he did not foresee (Hythlodaeus actually has better "soul vision" than Hades, and thus saw Ardbert's soul where Hades did not).

It's unclear who planted the Ascian soul crystals, but that doesn't mean it was Emet-Selch, and he helps you in the final showndown with Elidibus both because your defeating him convinced him mortals have some potential (or at least deserve a chance to forge their own futures), and as a service to Elidibus (so he wouldn't be forced to continue the Ascians' mission while his memories and identity slowly but surely degraded).

[Wiz33]

Emet-Selch doesn't kill you after the Crown of the Immaculate because he doesn't want to. His plan was to see if the PC could absorb all the Lightwardens' primordial Light and still retain their self; if they succeeded he'd acknowledge their worth and continue trying to sway the PC and Scions to his side, while if they failed he'd just wait for them to become an uber-Lightwarden and usher in the Flood of Light. Either way, he wins - but he knew from the outset the PC succeeding was a long shot (at best).

He shoots G'raha (and thus stops him from doing his heroic sacrifice) not because he wants G'raha to survive, but because his sacrificial plan would have stopped the PC from becoming an uber-Lightwarden like he wanted.

All his shots at the Scions not killing them could also be interpreted as the typical Ascian arrogance - why bother when the PC is moments away from turning into an uber-Lightwarden and killing them anyway, or restarting the Flood of Light which would also kill them? Emet-Selch can see "soul colors" but refuses to believe the PC is anything more than a "broken husk" of Azem, which is why he goes so hard into denial prior to the final showdown (since if the PC is Azem, his best friend is telling him what he's done is wrong). He does start trying to kill the PC after Ardbert's soul willingly merges with them because at that point his plan is in disarray due to an anomalous factor he did not foresee (Hythlodaeus actually has better "soul vision" than Hades, and thus saw Ardbert's soul where Hades did not).

It's unclear who planted the Ascian soul crystals, but that doesn't mean it was Emet-Selch, and he helps you in the final showndown with Elidibus both because your defeating him convinced him mortals have some potential (or at least deserve a chance to forge their own futures), and as a service to Elidibus (so he wouldn't be forced to continue the Ascians' mission while his memories and identity slowly but surely degraded).

So Ishikawa wrote a whole expansion on un-intended consequences? Is that what you really believe? Given that Emet have a big hand in the creation of the light warden. I would think he would know exactly how much Aether you can absorb. You are mixing up his words and his deeds. You have to remember that he's an arrogant SOB that thought everyone is beneath him and that's the way he speaks to everyone. Since he have long seen Arbert walking beside you. Why even give you the opportunity to join? This is not a James Bond Movie where the villain tells Bond his every plan and leaves him alive to come foil his plans.

[Cilia]

So Ishikawa wrote a whole expansion on un-intended consequences?

Well... yes? Shadowbringers happening at all was not part of the Ascian gameplan.

[Wiz33]

Well... yes? Shadowbringers happening at all was not part of the Ascian gameplan.

Wow, you actually said that with a straight face? I give Ishikawa more credit than that.

[Katie_Kitty]

Wow, you actually said that with a straight face? I give Ishikawa more credit than that.

There's no basis for you to believe otherwise. The ascian plan was to use a flood of light on the first to rejoin it to the source, and it succeeded, which caused the survivors to implement their own plan that involved going back and stopping the rejoining. I don't see where you're getting the idea that any of this was part of an Ascian plot.

Did Emet observe the WoL's arrival and try to work around it? Sure, but that doesn't make it part of his plan. It was a modified adjustment to the plan that was necessitated by our arrival. It wasn't supposed to happen.

[Veloran]

Are you implying

That you think we're going to go down the Ridorana Cataract and reach the core of the planet? An interesting idea, especially because that shot of Hydaelyn is centered on the Valnard Sea which is where Ridorana is located. I don't understand including the Sirensong Sea screenshot though.

Yes. In fact if you look at the logo and compare to the shot of the planet, not only is the hole roughly where the Cataract should be (and where the ocean is notably darker), but both Meracydia and Othard have continental splits along the same lines as the other black lines encircling the hole. As for the Sirensong Sea, it just happens to be one of the most random MSQ dungeons in the entire game, situated just on the edge of the position of the hole in that comparison, and it's flooded with ghosts and the undead. As we might expect if that's a rift into the aetherial sea.

It's unclear who planted the Ascian soul crystals, but that doesn't mean it was Emet-Selch,

I'm not smoking what Wiz there is and I don't think Emet is alive ("alive"), but come on now.

[MikkoAkure]

So you're saying it's sloppy writing?

As to trying to kill everyone. Did he? Who snapped Y'shtola out of the livestream? Why did he not simply kill you while you're overwhelmed with Aether at the end of The Crown of the Immaculate if he really consider you a failure at that point? Did you considered that Graha/Exarch would have died if Emet did not shoot him when he managed to absorb all your Aether? Did you notice that the arrows lands in a circle around Alphinaud and Alisaie instead of on them? Did you notice that a perfect killing shot on Ryne didn't even leave a scratch? If Hythlodaeus's shade can see that you have a fragment of Azem's soul and have another fragment walking beside you (Arbert). Emet certainly did much earlier and have alluded to it in his conversation with you. If he intends to kill you, why leave the trail of crystal to help you against Elidibus?

Cilia said that he tried very hard to kill us at the "tail end of Shadowbringers", which is true. Up to that point he just wanted to watch us and wanted us to gather up all the light we could for his plan B, which also involved us turning into a super light warden and killing everyone ourselves before dying. Plan C was "we hold back the light and agree with everything Emet-Selch says, show that our sundered selves have worth, and join the Ascians to bring back the good old days". When plans B and C failed, he pulled out the big guns and tried to kill us and all our friends. As for why he doesn't after, we can only assume, but it probably has to do with the fact that he'd been killed and sent to the lifestream, which could have removed his tempering. More importantly, he accepted both his personal loss, and the loss of his people at his end. And while not necessarily siding with Hydaelyn, he at least sided with us over Elidibus/Zodiark.

But a lot of that writing exists because of the format it's being told in. The meta reason why he didn't kill us and all our friends at the beginning is because this is a video game and as an MMO, our character can't die and that the writers wanted us to sympathize with Emet-Selch for the end of the story. Which wouldn't happen at all if he killed one of the Scions.



Sidenote: you may want to turn off your phone's auto-correct but I did get a chuckle out of Y'shtola being a streamer.

[Wiz33]

Cilia said that he tried very hard to kill us at the "tail end of Shadowbringers", which is true. Up to that point he just wanted to watch us and wanted us to gather up all the light we could for his plan B, which also involved us turning into a super light warden and killing everyone ourselves before dying. Plan C was "we hold back the light and agree with everything Emet-Selch says, show that our sundered selves have worth, and join the Ascians to bring back the good old days". When plans B and C failed, he pulled out the big guns and tried to kill us and all our friends. As for why he doesn't after, we can only assume, but it probably has to do with the fact that he'd been killed and sent to the lifestream, which could have removed his tempering. More importantly, he accepted both his personal loss, and the loss of his people at his end. And while not necessarily siding with Hydaelyn, he at least sided with us over Elidibus/Zodiark.

But a lot of that writing exists because of the format it's being told in. The meta reason why he didn't kill us and all our friends at the beginning is because this is a video game and as an MMO, our character can't die and that the writers wanted us to sympathize with Emet-Selch for the end of the story. Which wouldn't happen at all if he killed one of the Scions.



Sidenote: you may want to turn off your phone's auto-correct but I did get a chuckle out of Y'shtola being a streamer.

Emet could have wiped out your entire party in The Dying Gasp without a blink. Why didn't he? it's because he already believes that you are worthy. Given that he created Vauthry, he would know what absorbing all that Asther will do to you so everything that happened once you set foot upon Amarout is a setup to save your butt if you're indeed worthy. If Hythlodaeus's shade can see Ardbert beside you. Emet certainly can and did. My theory is that he believes that combining 2 souls (yours and Ardbert's) will allow you to control and channel all the excess Asther but he doesn't know if it can be done (after all, if he knows how to rejoin souls, they're won't have to work towards the rejoining). So he took a gamble that having 2 fragmented soul close to each other under great stress (not unlike a calamity) may make it happen. So all the trails in Amarout are so he can be sure that you will persevere through and to put you under so much stress that your 2 fragmented soul will join.