It's time to kill the argument that DPS abilities keep healers from healing.

[Drkdays]

We agree, then, there is extreme repetition.

What would be a non-cosmetic change to fight exteme repetition?

Ergo the core of the argument and my personal stance: who says there is a need for change? The task at hand has never failed to gain my full focus. Perhaps I worry more about my party than some, but I've never considered it a bad thing.

[GrimGale]

Ergo the core of the argument and my personal stance: who says there is a need for change? The task at hand has never failed to gain my full focus. Perhaps I worry more about my party than some, but I've never considered it a bad thing.

So there is nothing wrong with extreme repetition in your eyes?

[Drkdays]

You're constantly calling people entitled and vain for disagreeing with you. You're constantly using strawmans to twist people's words. You've brought nothing to the table, no evidence, no argument. Don't complain about insults when you're the one who has been slinging mud.

Your failure to convince me does not equal a stubborn refusal to see reason. It's that sort of flawed reasoning that tells me you will never convince me of anything.

And I'm calling people entitled and vain for disagreeing with my desire for disagreement.

[Drkdays]

So there is nothing wrong with extreme repetition in your eyes?

I'm saying that extreme repetition for you may not be so for everyone.

[Ironthorne]

Your failure to convince me does not equal a stubborn refusal to see reason. It's that sort of flawed reasoning that tells me you will never convince me of anything.

Really?

Agreed. it's amazing how many would-be healers just want more dps. Shows how little they know about actual healing.

This you? You've been repeating the same thing over and over. No matter how many times people have been telling you otherwise. It's not even the refusal to see reason, it's the refusal to accept the reality that the same people who are asking for more DPS tools are also the same people who would love to be able to heal more than anyone else. Nobody, literally nobody would pick a healer up and think "This is the perfect dps job for me!". People pick a healer job because they want to heal. But the game is not giving them that. That's why they have to resort to asking for more dps tools, to keep the gameplay engaging.

Stop twisting people's words, stop accusing people of wanting to turn healer jobs into DPS jobs, and stop your twisted gatekeeping power fantasy.

[Mortex]

So it's a derogatory term for players who just care about healing. Got it. Then I will treat it as such. Basically the "snowflake" of FF14 but directed specifically at healers.

Thanks for the clarification.

It’s more a about waisting the time of your group then anything else and I also think the same about tanks not using cd and forcing the healer player too heal dmg you can mitigate (hallowed ground and superbolide is not a collectors item so use it on cd every pull of possible in a dungeon) or dps not knowing basic rotation and buff uses. You can simply read abilities and see on the health bars the player have how much dmg the aoe or attack of trash or bosses do, and you can see if the tank used cds or not. The dmg bosses/trash does is always set there is no magic surprise after they removed crit chances from mobs/bosses from every content above patch 5.0.

[Sebazy]

I made my comments. I'm not in the habit if calling others wrong. You say you contribute a lot of dps as a healer. I'm not arguing with that. I'm arguing with the necessity for change. Your own charts seem to indicate that the dps is in a fine place for healers and any change would be essentially cosmetic to fight extreme repetition.

I think you're misunderstanding my overall point?

I'm honestly not bothered by the amount of DPS that we contribute to the overall raid. I'm simply pointing out that it is a necessity by design. Again I've got to stress, I'd much rather be healing. I can't say I particularly enjoyed DPSing in raids back when we had a more fleshed out kit and I certainly don't now.

Rather the point is the manner in which we deal our DPS which is further compounded by us having nothing else to do in the excessive downtime that endgame content offers. Indeed, tackling the extreme repetition is something that SE should be trying to address. Instead we seem to be sliding in the opposite direction with each expansion seemingly making us lean further on that single key.

Compare the following (The AST from above):



This is the PLD in the same run:



The Redmage:



The only one who comes even remotely close, SMN:



Things haven't always been like this for healers. Here's a run of mine on AST back in A12S:



That's a 9:47 fight. That's 234 GCDs for the entire fight if we assume 100% uptime. The AST pressed the same button for 204 out of 234 GCDs if we assume they didn't have to stop casting at any point. This isn't some amazing speed run, the AST got 65% for that. There are far more extreme runs I could use to pad out my point if I wanted to.

How many GCDs did they spend healing you ask? 4.... 4 Casts of aspected helios. The bulk of the healing was Earthly Star, CO, CU and Horoscope. Bonus fun fact, the AST did 41.4% of the healing vs their co healer's 34.5%. The Warrior contributed 10% of the healing, natural regeneration accounted for 8%.

It's taken a long sequence of continuous missteps by SE's job design team to get healers into the current situation that they are in now. Removing group utility, removing debuffs that needed to be carefully timed, removing our MP economy woes, removing the worries and pressure of a GCD centric healing kit, removing any worries over enmity, removing most of the depth and complexity to our DPS etc. I could go on but I hope you get the point.

The mark of a top flight raid healer used to be about efficient MP usage, minimising risks and keeping dots ticking.

Now it's about distilling as many of your GCDs into Glare/Broil/Malefics as is possible.

It's a sad state of affairs.

I'm saying that extreme repetition for you may not be so for everyone.

And this is an absolutely fair opinion. The issue with it however is that other roles have choice. Do I want gameplay that leans more towards one button akin to healers? BLM is right there as a fair choice even if SMN might not be once Endwalker lands. If I don't want that? No problem, I can play any one of a variety of different jobs both within and outside of the caster role that offer a completely different style and flow of gameplay.

However, as a healer, I have no choice. Every healer boils down to the same loop of slamming that nuke button once you start optimising your play. It shouldn't be like this at all. SCH has Ruin II which should be it's alternative option, as should AST lean much more heavily on it's card play IMHO. But SE simply aren't willing to commit to developing those facets of their gameplay. Rather it just gets streamlined, simplified and dumbed down.

Look at cast charts for all 3 healers, they all play in the same manner once you start looking at cast counts. Sage isn't going to help in the slightest.

In closing. I don't really know how much clearer I can make it:

204 GCDs out of a 234 GCD savage fight spent pressing the same nuke button. (Vs actually spending 4 GCDs on healing casts)

This isn't healing.

[Mortex]

I'm saying that extreme repetition for you may not be so for everyone.

But that’s the good player vs bad player point you make here. But my question is what would change for you and people that don’t want to dps as healers when the people that want to get more stuff to do that. It won’t change the way you can enjoy the job and also does give people that don’t wanna be idle in downtime something too do. So everyone is happy

[WaxSw]

I'm saying that extreme repetition for you may not be so for everyone.

Or maybe it is and the fact that healers have been complaining in this forum for 2 years straight (Whm even more) is enough of a sample that what its unpopular is the extreme repetition coupled with how popular dps roles are, roles that don't have not even 1 job with similar design.

You claim extreme repetition may be enjoyable for more people to what I ask, whom? Give me a sample somewhere of veteran healers that are happy with the current design and it better be at least twice as big as this forum because in the dev's words "A complaint is worth twice a compliment" and even if you find one sample big enough, as other people have pointed, Why all healers have to be played like that? Tanks have gameplay choices, dps too, healers only get 3 (and it soon seems to be 4) of the same flavour.

[GrimGale]

I'm saying that extreme repetition for you may not be so for everyone.

Well of course, isn't that the crux of the problem. Opinions are subjective. Fun is subjective. You never saw a problem with extreme repetition and I am sure a lot of people couldn't care less about the Glarebroil spam, after all they focus on keeping an eye on the health bars and mechanics waiting for that gauge to go down so they can do something about it. Anything else is an afterthought.

Some people would have fun on any job if you gave them 1 button to mash for 10 minutes. I am sure. You can't say people are wrong for enjoying that. There is no wrong or right in fun.

Ultimately the healer forums are filled with people who used to have fun with their healing jobs and now they do not. Does that warrant a re-work? Maybe. Maybe not. There are always going to be people upset about changes, satisfied with changes or indifferent towards changes. I guess devs need to gauge what the community wants. Upset people will always be more vocal. Are the healing forums an accurate representation of the community? Probably not.

Not everybody has the same definition as to what constitutes "engaging" gameplay. But to those who want more than one button to mash several times between heals, what do you say? Just deal with it or leave?

There are four healer jobs. There is enough space for everybody. Sage was an opportunity to make a healer that had a bigger focus on a DPS rotation and yet it is barely any different from the other three. The same formula for downtime, again.

I think people who wanted a healer with more interesting DPS options have the right to be upset. Phlegma III is barely a break in Dosis spam.