Extreme over correction in ToS? New ToS is going to kill pugging

[Izscha]

Why should anyone call that out? You can keep someone from joining your own private parties in your own private content quite easily. You don't have any right to bar them from public access content.

Pf isn't public access, duty finder is.
If pf was open to all you would not have things as ilvl restriction / jobs restriction.

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...5a085e167f6f70

Clarification for all you Doomsayers out there. Hopefully you guys will calm down.

[Reinha]

I agree. For me as non-native English speaker direct and to the point advice sounds normal, while overly polite language sounds passive-aggressive and insincere.

Especially if it's about mistakes. "Some people seem to have trouble staying on the platform" is very passive aggressive. If instead someone told me "you seem to have trouble staying on the platform, Reinha", I would see it as an opportunity to ask how everyone else is doing it.

[SturmChurro]

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...5a085e167f6f70

Clarification for all you Doomsayers out there. Hopefully you guys will calm down.

So, it's clarification that it was just clarification of rules that were already in place. Wow!

[Ronduwil]

Why do people keep ignoring probably the most blatant example, "don't join this party if you can't do y" when in basically no context should this be bannable, and instead would rather call concerned players assholes and doomposters?

Because that's a completely false statement. This game isn't rocket science. Everyone, with practice and diligence, can do pretty much anything they want to join a group for. It's bannable because it's always condescending and insulting to suggest to someone that they are incapable of playing the video game that they're currently playing. Also, SE has made it pretty clear that it's not what you say, but how you say it:

Source: https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

Example 1
Example of a violation:
"We can only beat [duty/content] by using [something]. You can't do it any other way, so stop doing that!"
Example of a non-violation:
"I think [duty/content] will go more smoothly if we do [something], so I want to try doing it this way, is that okay with everyone?"

Example 2
Example of a violation:
(In response to an opinion) "Your idea is ridiculous, what are you talking about!?."
Example of a non-violation:
(In response to an opinion) "I understand your opinion, but I think I can do better with [something], what do you think?"

[Kaliesto]

quit trolling lmao

Not a troll, I think the revised rules is going to chill out that scene for once.

Don't call me a troll if you don't get why I said "X thing". I never liked the hostile players of that scene, and glad something has been changed to address it.

[KOPF]

Especially if it's about mistakes. "Some people seem to have trouble staying on the platform" is very passive aggressive. If instead someone told me "you seem to have trouble staying on the platform, Reinha", I would see it as an opportunity to ask how everyone else is doing it.

But that will be a ban according to the examples, since that is singling out someone's mistake. But I guess the examples do not matter, since some of them will be okay with context according to Foxclon. From the "Follow Up Regarding Updates to Prohibited Activities in FINAL FANTASY XIV":

Rest assured, we do not issue penalties solely based on the fact that a report was filed and will thoroughly investigate the logs for context as necessary before making a decision.

Except they do since they were examples given as a way for people to realize why they got banned?

Based on our experience, there have been many cases where penalized players didn’t understand what they did wrong or what the issue was, so we added many examples to the prohibited activities in hopes of lowering the number of such cases.

Now English isn't my first language, so I might be misunderstanding it. That's how I read it though. Overall I am way more confused about the examples now than I was before.

Like I have said before in this thread, cultures can have very different perceptions what is considered polite and impolite. Some of the tamest examples they showed weren't even that impolite in my opinion and my country(wo)men, who I talked to agreed with me.

To me for example, if someone said straight up that: "Hey Dolo, you screwed up with lions. Do I need to repeat the mechanic for you?" would be a-ok. Not overly polite, but certainly not impolite either. But from what I gathered some of the examples, that kind of tone would be very much against the rules. Compared with the accepted terms, some of them feel very condescending and passive aggressive to me.

I know though that I am very much culturally on one side of the scale on straightforwardness, so I can and will be more courteous when I speak or write in English and people usually can talk misunderstandings through, but to me some of these rules (now given concrete examples to show what it is) feel too strict to the point that it will be unfair especially in a multicultural and lingual setting.

[Iscah]

Especially if it's about mistakes. "Some people seem to have trouble staying on the platform" is very passive aggressive. If instead someone told me "you seem to have trouble staying on the platform, Reinha", I would see it as an opportunity to ask how everyone else is doing it.

That phrasing is definitely passive-aggressive but something like "be careful not to move when the boss is casting Slippery Ice" is more of a friendly reminder while still not calling anyone out.

[Monsoon_Lues]

"You make alot of mistakes" *banned* wtf?? literally in a static where we have dps fucking up on light rampant and we have been on that mech for 4 days. they know they are fucking up and we keep telling them "pay attention" "stop clipping ppl with proteans" until now they finally corrected themselves, so now we are moving on cuz we keep telling them "they are making alot of mistakes". some ppl are just slow learners or hard headed and need to have it drilled into their head. the fact you cant say it in a nice way in PF is beyond me

I realize I'm joining the thread extremely late, but I just wanted to add in regards to this, you're missing part of the context here. This does not effect your static. There's not going to be a GM watching you and your friend group's every chat log in the shadows while you have your raid nights. You can still freely tell your static friends they're indirectly a piece of garbage at the game, but here's the catch: you can't do that to someone you don't know. Simple as that. You know this person? Go head, banter with them, backseat them, whatever the situation demands. You've never met this player in your life, and you're probably never going to see them again after this random PF? Don't. The TOS has always been the same, they simply added practical examples so people would stop flipping the argument around when in front of a GM.

[Vahlnir]

So, it's clarification that it was just clarification of rules that were already in place. Wow!