Guys STOP

[Mortex]

The problem with TBN hasnt been overly stated on the forums both English and JP. Since DRK is the most played tank then these considerations might not be taken into considerations. From what we have seen unless a job is least played it wont get any real adjustments.

Yoshi P himself said that the team have not been informed or aware that their are problems with skills such as LD, Blood Weapon, Dark Mind, TBN. Even though clearly we have voiced our concerns for years, streamers included.

I’m pretty sure they just ignore it either because they did the same with healer player who asked for downtime options or they have no clue we’re to go with drk from here.

[Danelo]

Yoshi P himself said that the team have not been informed or aware that their are problems with skills such as LD, Blood Weapon, Dark Mind, TBN. Even though clearly we have voiced our concerns for years, streamers included.

Yeaaah, that’s a lie. LD issues at the least were brought up to him 2 years ago in an interview at the last expansions media tour.

[Halfgeeek]

The problem with TBN hasnt been overly stated on the forums both English and JP. Since DRK is the most played tank then these considerations might not be taken into considerations. From what we have seen unless a job is least played it wont get any real adjustments.

That's the theory. Too many DRK players, devs trying to buff other tanks to make them more attractive.

[Beddict]

Yeaaah, that’s a lie. LD issues at the least were brought up to him 2 years ago in an interview at the last expansions media tour.

Try over six years. From Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XXIII Digest (08/18/2015):



6+ years of feedback doesn't mean shit to whoever is looking at DRK.

[Benn]

Try over six years. From Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XXIII Digest (08/18/2015):



6+ years of feedback doesn't mean shit to whoever is looking at DRK.

The issue here is clear. They (devs) state: "We'll check the job's overall performance in the raid".

So since DRK does indeed perform as good as any other tank (becasue let's be honest, every tank can perform well in raids, that's a good thing in FF XIV, jobs are FAIRLY balanced) and they see no issue on DATA (DRK "win ratio" on raids is the same as other tanks for example), ergo = they don't see a problem.

I think it goes like this for devs:

1. They do not look into each job, instead they pull data from game and look at following things: number of ppl playing job (high number must mean job is perfect!), number or win ratio vs other jobs (if it's not falling on bottom it means job is perfect!) and satisfaction from users (if most people say job is fine that means there is no need to adjust! Job is perfect!).
2. If there is no data that says that there something wrong with job they simply do not look deeply into details like individual skills etc.

The issue with DRK (and you will see the same with Reaper if he will have any problems) is that it's the most popular tanks because every kid wants to be edge lord with big two-handed sword. Most dev teams think that if something is the most popular - it has to be really good. They don't take into account how easy (nothing wrong with that) content is in FF XIV so there is no "meta" apart from 1% of players doing ultimates, that they ignore because that's 1%.

EW changes also confirms that to me since all other tanks were buffed because I assume DRK numbers are the highest in game, while I assume (that's only my opinion) that PLD are lowest, therefore - most buffs.

I don't agree with this approach but as this post shows - they don't care about individual skills as long as job overall performs well in their "statisitics" from excel.

[Oizen]

Well I think the tank situation has hit this sorta...boring balance to it. I'm not the most hardcore player of this game but over the years I've noticed that they seem to want to homogenize Tanks to all play roughly the exact same, and I think Dark Knight was a pretty big victim of that. The class kinda lost everything mechanically interesting about it, especially with how Darkside might as well be a toggle switch now.

[Shin96]

Well I think the tank situation has hit this sorta...boring balance to it. I'm not the most hardcore player of this game but over the years I've noticed that they seem to want to homogenize Tanks to all play roughly the exact same, and I think Dark Knight was a pretty big victim of that. The class kinda lost everything mechanically interesting about it, especially with how Darkside might as well be a toggle switch now.

At this point you're better off playing DPS. The reason I play tanks is for the associated mechanics around the medium. In this game it'll take you forever to find any of that.

Optimally all that SE expects from you is minimal engagement within the game as a tank. You have your tank stance pop it, and your rotation is what's left at the end. Incredibly boring, took me a while to get used to this fact.

And they won't go back or make them more complicated in my opinion. Tanks always held more responsibility in games and that's what made them so engaging and rewarding. The fact you make content easier for others or let's say more efficent gives credence to your overall skill as a person and player in any game. You hold the balance and the outcome depends on it.

[Benn]

At this point you're better off playing DPS. The reason I play tanks is for the associated mechanics around the medium. In this game it'll take you forever to find any of that.

Optimally all that SE expects from you is minimal engagement within the game as a tank. You have your tank stance pop it, and your rotation is what's left at the end. Incredibly boring, took me a while to get used to this fact.

And they won't go back or make them more complicated in my opinion. Tanks always held more responsibility in games and that's what made them so engaging and rewarding. The fact you make content easier for others or let's say more efficent gives credence to your overall skill as a person and player in any game. You hold the balance and the outcome depends on it.

I mean I agree with you but the issue is tanks are still the least popular job. They were even less popular when they were more complicated. Like it or not but streamlining tanks helped making role more popular. Sure, you who likes complicated tanks may quit tanking but if instead 50 casual players will pick up tank role in your place - that's less q time, faster q for all content and overall more win for SE and playerbase.

I have my own personal opinion about tanks overall, however I also see a reason behind tanks being simplified - it makes job more popular which it very much needs. When you consider changes you make for a game you consider it from logical point:

1. Do I make 100,000.00 players more happy?
2. Do I make 1,000.00 players more happy?

The answer is, for better or worse, only one.

[ForteNightshade]

Wait what?? I legit stated that we have to wait until endwalker to give data to the Devs and such, that media tour ain't even the final product, they do change a lot of skills on release

They actually don't. Shadowbringers is the first time we saw entire job overhauls mid-expansion. Previously, we were told to "wait and see" on White Mage's Lily system despite a near 100 page feedback thread going into specific detail why it wouldn't work. Lo and behold, it completely bombed; to the extent players were being advised to literally shove their job gauge off to the side. Likewise, Dark Knight's issues were equally ignored, leaving it to meander as the least played tank in SB by no small margin. It took a year for them to realize taxing Verraise meant RDM was essentially a dead job given the insane difference between it and the other Casters. Samurai suffered pretty the whole expansion due to the sheer dominance of the DRG/NIN/BRD meta. Literally nothing was done.

Credit where credit is do. They actually did overhauls this time around. Granted, I suspect it's largely because the Melee role was a complete mess. Regardless, they did something. Hopefully, this is a trend that continues. It, however, is not a recent one.

[Beddict]

At this point you're better off playing DPS. The reason I play tanks is for the associated mechanics around the medium. In this game it'll take you forever to find any of that.

Optimally all that SE expects from you is minimal engagement within the game as a tank. You have your tank stance pop it, and your rotation is what's left at the end. Incredibly boring, took me a while to get used to this fact.

And they won't go back or make them more complicated in my opinion. Tanks always held more responsibility in games and that's what made them so engaging and rewarding. The fact you make content easier for others or let's say more efficent gives credence to your overall skill as a person and player in any game. You hold the balance and the outcome depends on it.

Yeah, this is one reason I'm popping back over to DPS in Endwalker. Enmity management doesn't exist anymore, boss positioning rarely matters given how frequently they teleport to centre, lack of adds that require the off-Tank to handle stuff outside of very scripted add phases like in E1S and E7S, lack of Tankbusters resulting in very few Tank swaps that just get invuln'd through, and low incoming damage so personal mitigation doesn't feel impactful. I only tanked for Eden's Verse and Eden's Promise and I was left feeling bored most of the time because if I wasn't main-Tank I had very little to actually do. I don't want to do that for another expac, and so I'm going to plan an actual DPS, rather than sit there as a boring Blue DPS.