Guys STOP

[Yhisa]

Right I been mooching around the forums and so far just seeing alot of anger or displeasure within the tank community and I want to point out many things that people have NOT put into though


1) - potencies

Yes the potency formulation is changing in endwalker , if I recall they said it on stream whilst explaining it that it's a squish but this time they have "changed" the "base" number instead this expansion

This means that ALL potencies will be different in endwalker release

Examples

Healing potencies might be pretty weak on tanks , but strong on healers, just because it says 400 potency heal on a tank, does not mean it "might" equal to a cure 1 in endwalker as they may have "separate" base healing values between the two skills


2) - comparing mitigation Vs TBN

Currently I am seeing alot of threads popping up that all other tank CDs is better then tbn, news flash incoming

How can people "assume" this to be true when no one on the forum have even gone up against first raid tier in endwalker?? Or done multiple dungeons in endwalker to give "proper" feed back to the Devs

Currently we "assuming" tanks may have 80k hp...if this is true dark knight will have a 20k TBN shield

For other tanks to get "equal" to TBN they need to be hit for a whooping 100k tank buster just to be anywhere near the 20k hp shield dark knight have

A REMINDER. no one knows how the new tank busters works or even how hard they hit yet, so we legit cannot give any constructive feedback until then



I'm sorry guys but we can play guessing games all day, be angry because certain skills may NOT be to our liking

But reality is we cannot do anything until the first raid tier comes out and we provide actual "proper" data feedback to the Devs, so all I ask is for legit the player community to "hold" their feedback until endwalker comes out and until the first raid tier comes out aswell

This is where SE normally make job changes base on the feedback and data they collect via the first raid tier (they do this EVERY expansion)

[Yhisa]

Soo I want a math wizard to do some calculations for me so I'm going to "make up a boss"

Autos hit for 10k - 15k
Divine smite hits for 25k per 3rd swing

Heavens crack
Deals 30-40k tank buster

Heavens Cleave
Deals 110 - 130k
This skill can be reduce via stacking

Heavens judgement
Hits 6x for 15-18k damage

Heavens volley
Raid wide for 26k - 28k damage




Now rules is

All tanks have 80k hp, all same equipment

Potency healing is not equal to cure 1 it's 1/4 of the cure 1 potency healing base value

(Let's say cure 1 base potency is heal is 10k)

so for tanks that's 2500 heal for a 400 potency

Have fun and now calculate which tank is better against my "imaginative" boss fight in endwalker with the potency "changes"

[Absurdity]

Except we do have a rough idea of how the healing potencies on tanks look like, from the media tour footage.

Bloodwhetting heals you for 7600-7800 critical on a weaponskill, which amounts to 22800-23400 hp restored after 3 GCDs (we can probably get 4 GCDs out of the 8 second buff with the right amount of skillspeed but let's ignore that for now), on top of that you have the ~20% mitigation from the buff.

Now if we take your assumption that tanks will have roughly 80K HP, that means TBN will indeed give you a 20K shield.

A tank buster in higher end content is 100% designed to kill you without mitigation, so let's assume it hits for 90K so you need to atleast pop some mitigation to survive it.

This would mean that Bloodwhetting's 20% mitigation reduces the damage you take down to 72K, effectively mitigating 18K damage, add to that the 22-23K healing you gain from it and you can see why people aren't too hyped about TBN anymore.

Now obviously this is only the case if all 3 of your weaponskills crit and we don't know the crit modifier for Endwalker yet, but let's assume it heals you for less than half of that, 8500 HP total, that still leaves you with 26500 damage removed from that attack. Suddenly that 20K shield isn't looking so hot anymore.



Let's take another example, Heart of Corundum.

Same 90K tank buster but HoC reduces your damage by ~30%, mitigating about 27K damage and the excog effect from it heals you for about 11500 HP.




Would TBN be stronger on tank busters that hit like a wet noodle? Sure, but who cares about a tank buster that you can easily survive without any mitigation at all.

[Yhisa]

There u go u now fix dark

Add a healing effect when the shield breaks

[Baxcel]

There u go u now fix dark

Add a healing effect when the shield breaks

#1 Anime redemption arc right here...

Guys stop worrying about DRK to OK fix DRK after one comment

[WhyAmIHere]

I'm sorry guys but we can play guessing games all day, be angry because certain skills may NOT be to our liking

But reality is we cannot do anything until the first raid tier comes out and we provide actual "proper" data feedback to the Devs, so all I ask is for legit the player community to "hold" their feedback until endwalker comes out and until the first raid tier comes out aswell

This is where SE normally make job changes base on the feedback and data they collect via the first raid tier (they do this EVERY expansion)

5.0. they added Energy Drain back to SCH before the raid dropped.

Also no. You're not gonna win saying "just wait and see guys they'll fix it!" People are tired of that.

[Duskane]

There u go u now fix dark

Add a healing effect when the shield breaks

Doesn't fix its issue at all
main problem with TBN is that its tied to your damage resource while other 3 are not
so you have to get full value out of TBN or its a waste
it's bad design and also hypocritical when they went against counter like abilities like Shield swipe and HW drk parry procs

[ZaqueXIII]

There is an amount of potential over reaction with regards to potency, however, it largely stems from the last time we were told dont worry about potencies they might change before the expansion they were almost all unchanged. And with regards to TBN as has been stated, its not a bad cooldown but its expensive for DRK when all other tanks get an equivalent or better for free ostensibly. Not to mention DRK needs to get full value on TBN to break even on the cost while other tanks get the full value from pressing the button and thats it. Its also worth mentioning that there have been some really creative ideas in some of the bigger threads which shows that the community is very pasionate about this and we shouldnt shut that type of thing down.

[Halfgeeek]

I don't think OP has factored in that 20% DR from other skills already nullify a large incoming damage, then healing on top of it makes it much more potent.

Bloodwhetting is 400 shield, then 400 heal every WS, 4 WS can be timed within that duration, total 1600 heal, 400 shield.

TBH is not even CLOSE to being comparable.

PLD's Holy Shelltron has even more DR, and a regen afterwards.

DRK needs changes.

Edit: While you guys can focus on end-game tank busters, even for casual content like dungeons, mass pulls a TBN is nothing at all being 1/4 HP barrier. WAR will go 1HP -> 80K HP in a few AoE attacks with the healing it procs. PLD too with their holy spells now also self-healing. DRK gets what, the crap abyssal drain on 60s cooldown? :/

[MagiusNecros]

We already have the data that tells us that potencies across the board have been reduced by 20% and we can see the HP squish on every class going down to 40k on casters, 45k on Melee/Ranged DPS and 65k on Tanks. Add 10k-15k for endgame gear and melds if you want but there it is.

TBN's issue has been stated by everyone. It's tied to dmg resource and if it doesn't break it's a dps loss. I can see TBN + Defensive being required early game but lategame it's going to fall off hard in non-savage/extreme content.

All this talk of disregarding potencies is asinine given the data we have and will only have slight alterations if any in 6.1.

The whole "wait and see" is so funny since people always say that about pre-lim patch notes and are always surprised when nothing changes in final patch notes every patch.

Easy fix for TBN to get the full effect can be done as follows "if the shield breaks OR the duration expires you get a Dark Arts proc" in this manner it is never a loss.

Gunbreaker will have this already with their Excog effect on Heart of Corundum. And for free. I see no reason to not make that change.

People just want their job classes to be better then they are especially when it's pretty clear Dark Knight was so phoned in. Holy Sheltron, Nascent Flash/Bloodwhetting, HoC are just leagues better then TBN. Very powerful skills at level 82.

DRK though? Oblation. 2 charge 10% targetable mitigation. Literally worse then Rampart. If the devs had someone that playtested DRK maybe they should have taken the time to upgrade TBN just like they upgraded the other TBN tier skills.