Extreme over correction in ToS? New ToS is going to kill pugging

[Claire_Pendragon]

Seriously, read the ToS.

Using and manipulating enmity-related actions in an effort to incapacitate other players or interfere with gameplay.

A tank being petty and not doing the job they queued up for and intentionally letting people die is not "difference in playstyle" and it has its own section in the ToS.

technically youre misunderstanding the context.
if a DPS or healer does nothing wrong, and the tanks is doing this to intentionally annoy a person, not because they are in a disagreement, then its greifing. if the other persons playstyle is the cause of the intentional enmity manipulation, then its considered "defensive actions" taken by the tank (not to everyone else obviously) which is why it becomes a grey area.

you can argue it doesnt matter, but regardless, its why the GM sees it as such. So if the case is dropped in the lap of said GM or like minded GMs, thats the end result.

Me telling the healer to DPS and the healer answering "I only heal" is, on the other hand, a difference in playstyle. And you can't kick someone for it.

Ironically, THIS is much closer to the idea of a tank queuing up just to harass people. as its intentionally taking the action, knowing ppl arent ok with it, before any interaction occurs which leads to the disagreement. Which of course, the context here, is that knowing someone would be mad with it, is the equivalent of "hoping" people wont be mad with it. and its not the same as intentionally wanting them to be mad. which is the only reason its not against the ToS.

(I expect my words to be taken out of context, or straight up strawmanned, but ill ignore such comments)

[Liam_Harper]

The sky is not, in fact, falling.

It's fine; calm down.

I was going to write "exactly" and agree that the rules should be fine as long as you're not being rude to others... and for the most part it probably will be fine. But I have to admit there are some rather questionable rules there.

For example, it's prohibited to leave right after entering a duty or intentionally disconnect. That one is hard to police if you got a really unfortunate DC timing. Nor would I want to be held hostage in an instance if someone joined straight after I did who I knew for a fact refuses to do mechanics, or had blacklisted.

It's also clear you may suggest advice to a player, but unclear what you can do if they flat out refuse to listen, such as refusing to do a key mechanic. Are you allowed to kick them? How long do you have to wait before you're allowed to leave?

[lezard21]

Things were better when the Internet world was a dead man's land.

This tbh. So many memorable events in MMO's history when they were not twitter level of political correctness gentrified.

Like owo's Angwe, or Blood Plague or funeral pvp fest; or AlwaysJourney's Fansy the bard; or Harry the Last Shard.

What will people remember from MMO's from this era in a couple of years? That one time everyone stopped talking for fear of offending someone's feelings and getting banned?

[Illmaeran]

I don't know about everyone else, but I fully intend to keep PUGging as I can see no reason to stop.

[IDontPetLalas]

There is a difference between someone who leaves a duty and takes the penalty and someone who DCs for various reasons tha SE could interpret as an exploit or hindering others. gameplay.

There should be no repercussions in the first case- the system is already in place to penalize you.

What is new is that the TOS now states is that those people who DC to get around various penalties - it could be the penalty for leaving a duty, it could be waiting through cutscenes, etc- are considered to be in violation of the TOS are could be penalized. The people who are are in the habit of doing so (i.e. not a one- time or infrequent case) THOSE are the people that should be worried.

[HolyReign]

100% Agree with this. "What do you mean, I can't be toxic anymore!!!"

Treat people nice, kind, and politely.

[Nothv13]

100% Agree with this. "What do you mean, I can't be toxic anymore!!!"

Treat people nice, kind, and politely.

Nice kind and politely varies with culture. Shit man, it even varies from town to town.

[Raim]

In reality, none of this will happen. Everything will remain as is. You're not going to get banned for any of that. Some people might 'test the waters' with excessive reporting to troll people, but GMs will dismiss them unless you're blatantly being cruel about it. You might get banned if you go "What kind of an idiot only heals? Why cant you play this game right? Are you too dense to press Glare? Waste of our time get out garbage."

[KOPF]

Nice kind and politely varies with culture. Shit man, it even varies from town to town.

Anecdotally I gave some of the acceptable phrases to couple of my friends who share my nationality and they thought them as condescending and passive aggressive. Also I can say that in EU there are very different interpretations on what is perceived as the polite way to give and receive advice. And of course if someone insults or acts deliberately belligerent, it should be worthy of a report.

I haven't had a warning or ban to my knowledge in 8 years, so most likely nothing will change, but these clarifications do seem to be directed to Japanese and their culture. This coupled with some very disheartening allegations of how Square Enix EU customer support seems to enforce these rules (Sorriow case) makes it ripe for exploitation from all sides. Hopefully it does not happen, but I'd rather not had the option for that occurring in the first place.

[ZodiacHeart42]

Ah I was expecting a MPK thread on this.

You weren't disappointed, it seems lol