Updates to the Prohibited Activities in FINAL FANTASY XIV and Account Penalty Policy

[Krotoan]

I can't believe the amount of crying in this thread about rules that were already in place.

... I can. In many cases it's the people who supported exactly what this refinement of rule definitions seeks to prevent but could previously loophole their way around with semantics and mental gymnastics.

People who cannot extrapolate from guidelines is why hard lines must be drawn... I was hoping we'd never need this, but with the influx of players I'm guessing they're seeing more "infractions" and need to give their enforcement sharper teeth in the form of specific examples they can point out they said NOT to do.

[Karan_Vess]

1- Should be fine, but you might want to phrase it as a "Learning Party: Garuda EX!"; that's the more common lingo.

2- The key problem is the second half of that statement, the "You can't do it any other way, so stop doing that!"; that bit worded the way it is (especially in Japanese) can be seen as belittling another. Rather, just saying "We can only beat X by doing Y" should be clear and easy enough that you don't need to elaborate further about what they're doing wrong.

1. Right, maybe my example wasn't good enough. What about a pf listing that's offering to skip savage fight 1-3 and go straight to 4? The point is, are free services being offered violations?
2.1. How it's worded in Japanese is irrelevant when I'm talking about the policies posted in English and the policies have no reference to the Japanese version.
2.2. Sure, people "should" be able to understand a simple explanation. But the problem arises when they don't for whatever reason and the only options you have left is to directly tell someone to stop sabotaging progress or simply kicking them. Neither would go very well with the current policies as they're written. Even if you're polite, "Please stop using the melee LB, we need the tank LB" could technically be construed as compelling a playstyle.
I see the intention behind the rules but the wording is insufficient which makes them easily abusable.

[KOPF]

2- The key problem is the second half of that statement, the "You can't do it any other way, so stop doing that!"; that bit worded the way it is (especially in Japanese) can be seen as belittling another. Rather, just saying "We can only beat X by doing Y" should be clear and easy enough that you don't need to elaborate further about what they're doing wrong.

The problem is that different cultures perceive statements differently. If someone kept saying the latter term, it would make me kinda feel that the person saying is being passive aggressive and condescending. Not to say that the first one is OK either, but to me the most polite way of saying is: "You just have to do it this way, since that's how we can complete the mechanic simplest/easiest." I mean I wouldn't get offended enough to report someone for either statements you made as an example, but it just isn't that simple in my opinion.

[Nishira]

I honestly wonder how these people get through daily life and hope for their sake that they never end up in a customer facing job.

I have and I had zero issues. I usually found it a fun challenge to deal with angry customers and see how quickly I could disarm them and have a normal conversation after that where both parties show each other some basic respect. When I moved on to other things, a lot of customers asked for me and regretted I no longer worked there.

I don’t consider myself particularly thin skinned. If anything, I see it as the opposite really. When people can’t handle normal, daily life frustration, I see that as thin skinned. If something can be changed to alleviate that frustration, obviously anyone should try that route, no point in needless suffering. But when you deal with random people, you deal with a great variety, a guaranteed unpredictability in many things. You can’t expect things to go this one way you prefer, you have to wait and see. And if things don’t go well, you can suggest alternatives in a friendly manner and most of the time people will be willing to try. If they’re not willing to try, nothing you do will change it. The logical course of action is to accept you bumped into an exception, and disengage if it’s riling you up too much.

With people who are willing to try, you just risk making them more nervous or uncomfortable if you belittle or demean them in the process. And feeling that way is extremely counterproductive when you try to learn something new. No matter how you look at it, acting unkind to others won’t net positive results, unless you count chasing them out of ‘your’ content as a win. If common courtesy as a concept doesn’t impress you, and you care pretty much for yourself only, even then basic manners will often net you better results.

[Izscha]

The problem is that different cultures perceive statements differently. If someone kept saying the latter term, it would make me kinda feel that the person saying is being passive aggressive and condescending. Not to say that the first one is OK either, but to me the most polite way of saying is: "You just have to do it this way, since that's how we can complete the mechanic simplest/easiest." I mean I wouldn't get offended enough to report someone for either statements you made as an example, but it just isn't that simple in my opinion.

Wait there is different cultures in this world beside murica's one ?
We need to tell the world.

[Absurdity]

Wait there is different cultures in this world beside murica's one ?
We need to tell the world.

Wrong country for this game lol.

[Izscha]

Wrong country for this game lol.

It was more about how ppl being the most vocal on any "issue" on the internet are from NA.
Just need to look at this forum tho or even this thread.

[kaynide]

The problem is that different cultures perceive statements differently. If someone kept saying the latter term, it would make me kinda feel that the person saying is being passive aggressive and condescending. Not to say that the first one is OK either, but to me the most polite way of saying is: "You just have to do it this way, since that's how we can complete the mechanic simplest/easiest." I mean I wouldn't get offended enough to report someone for either statements you made as an example, but it just isn't that simple in my opinion.

It's a Japanese game policed by Japanese people; How they (or people they've specifically hired) interpret the rules is all there is to it. They need not explain their reasoning as this isn't a court of law or whatever.

Though like you're saying, being more polite is always the way to go.

[Lunalepsy]

The only policy I'm not ok with is the one about random disconnections. Sometimes, I get 90k'd out of nowhere for joining an instance. It usually takes me 2-3 minutes to come back (logging in + queue), so telling people to stop using the Duty Finder system is a bit weird.

[Illmaeran]

It's a Japanese game policed by Japanese people; How they (or people they've specifically hired) interpret the rules is all there is to it. They need not explain their reasoning as this isn't a court of law or whatever.

Though like you're saying, being more polite is always the way to go.

Honto da!

I think the mental gymnastics required for non-Japanese or non-people-who've-lived-in-Japan to understand the sometimes significant difference in points-of-view can be insurmountable in these matters. Even though I'd been aware of social practices before moving there, I know I had no real/true frame of reference as to how radically different my American POV was from the Japanese POV. Thankfully my momma raised a boy with good manners so the gap wasn't completely insurmountable.

Erring on the side of "best behavior" never hurts and hopefully the well-hidden statement of SE staff accounting for regional cultural differences will have noticeable benefit.

This whole kurffule makes me glad I'm on a JP server though and not some "JP-but-OCE-dominated server like Ton....oh, *ahem*. .

The only policy I'm not ok with is the one about random disconnections. Sometimes, I get 90k'd out of nowhere for joining an instance. It usually takes me 2-3 minutes to come back (logging in + queue), so telling people to stop using the Duty Finder system is a bit weird.

I wouldn't be surprised if they've got a way to track this; especially if the client gives you an error message.