White-mage is doomed - and why

[CrimsonGunner]

the moment i saw thin air was going to be changed to that, i alraedy knew whm is in big gameplay issues cause thin air was basically the staple for mp management.
true, thin air is the reason, whm almost no piety builds, exist but in that build you see how much thin air actually contibute and important in runs to whm mana management in those builds and feel how that combo of thin air + lucid actually helps you manage and conserve your mp.
right now taking thin air for granted is wrong cause the moment it will change to that version ,people will leave whm not only cause ast kit is better but because whm itself wont be easy to play and perform anymore as he is right now.

[QooEr]

the moment i saw thin air was going to be changed to that, i alraedy knew whm is in big gameplay issues cause thin air was basically the staple for mp management.
true, thin air is the reason, whm almost no piety builds, exist but in that build you see how much thin air actually contibute and important in runs to whm mana management in those builds and feel how that combo of thin air + lucid actually helps you manage and conserve your mp.
right now taking thin air for granted is wrong cause the moment it will change to that version ,people will leave whm not only cause ast kit is better but because whm itself wont be easy to play and perform anymore as he is right now.

yep. in addition to the inherent mp problems, astro has a lot of strong and free ogcd heals every minute, while white mage only has two reliable ones on much longer cooldowns. (assize isnt reliable for healing), which means whm will be forced into using their gcd heals more often than ast, which btw also has less expensive gcd heals should they need to.

It's like every part of whm's kit exacerbates its problems. Not only is Ast completely overtuned, but whm is also severely undertuned as well.

[CrimsonGunner]

Why would we assume, of all things, that Thin Air would be spent merely on Glare? Or is this assuming (perhaps rightly) that one would only be able to spend it on a rez or Medica II, etc., so infrequently?

cause if you don't and hold on to it until you need to hard cast medica II or rez, your mp might run out or best case might reach below 40-50% just from using glare and dia while the occasional assize ,not taking to account PoM is now much more available so you will be spamming even more glares then before.

[VictoriaLuv]

No one wants be in situation where they giving 150% to party only watch friends and fc members die. at most critical moment in a boss fight. even if everyone did mechinics 100% what wipes everyone. is fact you ran out of oom. this will make people who love white mage not want to play it . its not players fault. no they did everything they could. that sad part

they are enforcing white-mage be 4 man dungeon healer. has no place in current raiding. this is wrong all players all classes should be viable. even if there not mid-maxing

[MellowMink]

Do not think I hating on white-mage

Didn't you make a thread recently that proposed White Mage being renamed to a significantly more negative name? I can't find the thread now though; it seems to have been removed.

[CrimsonGunner]

yep. in addition to the inherent mp problems, astro has a lot of strong and free ogcd heals every minute, while white mage only has two reliable ones on much longer cooldowns. (assize isnt reliable for healing), which means whm will be forced into using their gcd heals more often than ast, which btw also has less expensive gcd heals should they need to.

It's like every part of whm's kit exacerbates its problems. Not only is Ast completely overtuned, but whm is also severely undertuned as well.

yes, i wrote it my previous post about the free ogcd they have. i really hope that they won't change it in the end or replace it with maybe additional mp recovery effect cause otherwise i don't think people will stick to whm if he isn't easy to play anymore.

[CrimsonGunner]

Didn't you make a thread recently that proposed White Mage being renamed to a significantly more negative name? I can't find the thread now though; it seems to have been removed.

victoria did open such thread ,it was not ok but it doesn't change the fact that the topic of thin air being nerf is a huge problem for whm that need to be spoken.
so i am willing to ignore and forget the other posts.

fyi victoria called whm goblin trash or trash goblin in that thread

[QooEr]

victoria did open such thread ,it was not ok but it doesn't change the fact that the topic of thin air being nerf is a huge problem for whm that need to be spoken.
so i am willing to ignore and forget the other posts.

yeah i mentioned it in that post and it got delted but i thought it was important so i brought it up. in hindsight maybe i shouldve started a thread myself instead of hijacking one by victoria because idk how many people are gonna ignore this one just cuz she made it

[MilkieTea]

yeah i mentioned it in that post and it got delted but i thought it was important so i brought it up. in hindsight maybe i shouldve started a thread myself instead of hijacking one by victoria because idk how many people are gonna ignore this one just cuz she made it

It’s unfortunate that she’s created this situation herself. I do believe she could turn it around still - keep her posts in one thread and stop getting extremely flustered and upset when people call her out or disagree with her. But she *NEEDS* to stop making new threads for every single idea she has because the behavior itself is against ToS.

She might have a minutiae of a point but it’s lost in the sea of bias.

[Sunako]

ive said it in other threads but ill repeat it here because i think its relevant and victoria isnt completely midguided this time.

The nerf to thin air was a gigantic hit to whm's mp economy.
Whm will be the healer with the worst mp economy in endwalker. Aside from lucid dreaming, their only mp recovery is assize (500mp/45s). As for mp conservation tools they only get a single spell under thin air, and i guess lilies count as free gcds.

This leaves whm getting on average 666 mp + 1 free spell every minute.

For comparison, minus lucid dreaming:
-sch gets 2000 mp per min
-ast gets 1000 mp/min from cards + average 2000 mp/min from astrodyne
-sge gets 1500 mp per min from addersgall + average 333 mp/min from rizomata

Its pretty clear whm is completely outclassed in the mp restoration department. You might be compelled to say "well whm could use thin air on an expensive heal or a rez every minute! its akin to having 2400 extra mp per min!". To which i have two retorts.

1. Ast gets on average 3000 mp per min. Ast could raise once every minute too and still end up with 600 mp restored. Assize is 666 mp per minute btw...

2. thin air does not restore mp, only conserves it. If you are casting continuously in an encounter (which you should), no matter what spell you use under thin air, it wont stop you from running out of mp any sooner.

Im going to make another comparison.
First, let\\'s assume that lucid dreaming will still restore 3500 mp on endwalker. Lets also assume that in endwalker, base piety restores the same amount of mp as in Shb. This latter assumption is based on the fact that as of now, regardless of character level, at 0 extra piety you always restore 200 mp per server tick.

Taking the aforementioned into account, imagine a healer with 0 spell speed and 0 piety on their gear, only doing their damage rotation and using every recovery ability in their kit, until they run out of MP.
- ast is MP positive. (never runs out of mp)
- sch would last 125 mins until out of mp
- sge would last ~15.5 mins until oom
- whm would last ~7.5 mins until oom

For reference, BiS sets from the balance that are meant to be only used for speedkills and are not suited for regular play, usually last around 7 mins til oom.

its also worth noting that, if you use every lily you get as soon as possible merely to save the mp from that gcd, whm lasts 20 mins till oom. Ironically, these are 4 more free gcds every 2 minutes, which is exactly what old thin air used to bring over its endwalker iteration.

What does this mean for whm?
WHM is going to need to invest heavily into piety compared to the other healers.* Which will decrease its damage contribution considerably.

WHM is going to need to use lilies more frequently as an mp management tool, or just drop gcds. Neither of those are good options because whm as a class with no buffs needs to have good personal damage.

*edit: As explained in a comment below, assuming piety will work mostly the same in endwalker as it does now, WHM would need to invest in at least 13 max level materias worth of piety just to match sage's base mp economy. That's nearly half of a gearset's materia slots spent on just doing what every other healer will be able do with 0.

It also feels pretty unrealistic completing a fight with 0 lily uses. Every lily theoretically saves you 4 - 10% mana and you got 4 free globals after 90 seconds. On top of that, if you can hit misery on the second target, it is a DPS increase. Every long fight has downtime phases too. Like there is no single ultimate without downtime. If the mana regen would be par with other healers(without lilies), I think it would be kind of overpowered.