White-mage is doomed - and why

[VictoriaLuv]

its little bit worser then that didn't thin air come out in heavenward.

[Grimoire-M]

What I'm seeing here is that WHM will be similar to how it was in HW? I had MP issues for that whole expansion.

It will be unless you use Thin Air on anything but Raise. That said, I don’t think Thin Air should be changed to help with WHM’s MP economy. I think Presence of Mind should be given a Refresh effect over its duration instead, added in to the ability baseline, no trait upgrades involved. ARR White Mage still suffers from MP issues and this should also solve that problem for them.

The change I would like to see on Thin Air is a 2.5s cast time reduction on the aforementioned GCD it’s spent on. This additional mobility should help out with it being used on DPS and healing spells alike and the odd hard Raise will be much easier to find time for while not completely invalidating Swiftcast.

[ItMe]

snip

I have a better understanding of the situation now.
Thanks for the additional information.

[Ilyrian]

How is this any different to being left out of the meta in all of HW and SB?

People will adapt and if you want to heal ultimate we'll all play the healer (guessing AST/SGE) that it requires.

[VictoriaLuv]

I'll go into another reason. good people brought up Presence of mind. this also has huge effect on white mp ecomancy. when its used people used to it using it as a offensive cooldown. however doing so means they can cast glares and holy's lot faster. at a cost loosing a massive chunk of mp for casting twice as much glares a holys not like you use holy in savage hardly never. this even effects there game play in normals. i even go as far as say white-mage wont be able clear normals. without a scholar

this is extremely punishing to white-mage dps output now as a white-mage have be extremely careful what how you cast it.

here let me paint a picture. you and your friends go into a party your stuck situation. tank is about get hit by tank buster. but at same time other friend dps recently got cliped by aoe at 50% you know next attack is unavoidable aoe. if you do not heal both of them at same time. both of them will die.

this situation would either have you afflatus rapturing or planetary aoe heal. but can you risk it now? could risk spending that much mana. your on a time limit before you go oom

you just used assize last time party took big damage thats on cool-down. alot of answers to this problem. but those answers but it only slow down. your gonna have worst experence ever

most defeating feeling ever when almost and could beaten boss. but class limitations prevents it

boss get down to 20-30% all your cooldowns spent no mp left to spare. lucid dreaming on cooldown. people are dieing. why this happening cause have no mp recovery cant keep tank alive off piety alone heals be way to slow. cant always reply on your other healer to carry have remeber you are also there support as well. there just as spent as you are

[Shurrikhan]

Let's put thin air as an effective +400 extra mp per min as a generous "case B".

Why would we assume, of all things, that Thin Air would be spent merely on Glare? Or is this assuming (perhaps rightly) that one would only be able to spend it on a rez or Medica II, etc., so infrequently?

[VictoriaLuv]

How is this any different to being left out of the meta in all of HW and SB?

People will adapt and if you want to heal ultimate we'll all play the healer (guessing AST/SGE) that it requires.

I know sage is new healer in town everyone gonna play it. but lets be 100% real here. sage may deal a lot of damage. but it doesn't help anyone else deal it. once sage hype goes down. its gonna be Ast/Scholar always cause chain + damage buff combo

[CrimsonGunner]

It will be unless you use Thin Air on anything but Raise. That said, I don’t think Thin Air should be changed to help with WHM’s MP economy. I think Presence of Mind should be given a Refresh effect over its duration instead, added in to the ability baseline, no trait upgrades involved. ARR White Mage still suffers from MP issues and this should also solve that problem for them.

The change I would like to see on Thin Air is a 2.5s cast time reduction on the aforementioned GCD it’s spent on. This additional mobility should help out with it being used on DPS and healing spells alike and the odd hard Raise will be much easier to find time for while not completely invalidating Swiftcast.

basically ast lightspeed but again you will have mp issues which people said one of ast big turn down once 5.0 came out and it was basically left out, not cause of meta but because his mp management and apm was the worst and you only had lucid and 50% mp cut using lightspeed.
since draw is also 30s and also right now they have sleeve draw that give mana back and in EW they will have astrodyn, but whm wont have the combo of lucid + thin air to restore his mana back to a decent amount. what they are saying that even if you use thin air for every spell, you will not be able to recover the mp in a total fight where u spam gcd spells and that is taking to account using lilies and every ogcd you have, meaning you will hit 0 mid run even with all those tools you have at your disposal.
not to mention the moment you will die ,you will not be able to recuperate as fast as ast,sge or sch can cause not only you dont have the amount of free ogcd they have, you wont have lilies and lucid + thin air combo wont exist so the moment you die ,you will have to delay your spells if you want to even slightly recover.

* also a good point ,POM change will make you cast even more glares so reaching much more to mp depletion

[QooEr]

Why would we assume, of all things, that Thin Air would be spent merely on Glare?

read the original post to see my rationale. it doesnt matter what spell you cast under thin air, it wont stop you from running out of mp any faster if you dont cast heals outside of it.

If youre casting 100% of the time, every gcd has a baseline cost of 400 mp, because that is the cheapest spell we have in a gcd (lol esuna). if i casted medica ii, that gcd would cost 1300 mp, but its not 1300 more mp, its only 900 more mp than the baseline (1300-400).
Therefore a single free gcd from thin air refunds you the cost of a single baseline gcd. A glare and a Raise under thin air both cost 0 MP. You of course want to use thin air on your most expensive spells, but thats because doing otherwise is a loss of mp. This doesnt mean its an mp gain, however.

i hope im being clear. you would run out of mp after 7 mins in the scenario presented wether you used raise or glare on your thin air gcd.

[VictoriaLuv]

[QUOTE=CrimsonGunner;5693135]basically ast lightspeed but again you will have mp issues which people said since draw is also 30s and also right now they have sleeve draw that give mana back and in EW they will have astrodyn, but whm wont have the combo of lucid + thin air to restore his mana back to a decent amount. what they are saying that even if you use thin air for every spell, you will not be able to recover the mp in a total fight where u spam gcd spells and that is taking to account using lilies and every ogcd you have, meaning you will hit 0 mid run even with all those tools you have at your disposal.
not to mention the moment you will die ,you will not be able to recuperate as fast as ast,sge or sch can cause not only you dont have the amount of free ogcd they have, you wont have lilies and lucid + thin air combo wont exist so the moment you die ,you will have to delay your spells if you want to even slightly recover.

that's most tragic part. dying on white-mage is gonna be brutal. most punishing. cause all that mp you had before. completely gone. and your have survive on lowliest amount.

piety will have be taken into deep concertation when playing white-mage . for first time. piety is important state. but what at what cost. this hit your damage your glare. by quite a lot and your over all heal strength also forfeit.

also have remember we having a state-squish white-mages dps is getting hit very-very hard. just so they can be able to heal in normals/savage

now we don't know alchemy is getting new healing potions and eithers. there hasn't been for quite some time. even if they did this effects other healers as well