Updates to the Prohibited Activities in FINAL FANTASY XIV and Account Penalty Policy

[Imora]

Okay so I took a look at the actual new rules. There is some good and some bad. But I'm very concerned with the "Nuisance behavior" section.

Here are a few examples of things that are called out as prohibited:


Statements such as "you're bad at [something]," or "you're not getting [something] at all"
blaming and attacking others, such as "It's [player name]'s fault that we wiped" or "You really make a lot of mistakes,"
"your glamour is terrible, you should quit the game," or "the way you talk disgusts me."
Statements such as "people like you will never get better"
it is prohibited to make statements such as "why aren't you doing [specific thing]? Everyone knows that's how you do this!"
"There is nothing wrong with providing suggestions that the player community typically follows, but this can only be presented in the form of a "suggestion" and cannot be in the form of a demand"
Statements such as "how can you screw up on something so simple that no one else messes up?" are prohibited.
Statements such as "you're bad at [something]," or "you're not getting [something] at all" are prohibited



Player A: B, you're doing this part wrong.
Player B: I understand, I'll try harder.
Player A: You understand the mechanics? Want me to teach you?
Player B: I do understand, I'm OK. Thank you.
Player A: You sure you understand? You keep on screwing up. You should do [something] on [something].
Player B: I understand, I'm sorry.
Player A: You sure? If you don't know let me know, ok? B, you're screwing up so many times, you're really dragging this out for us.
Player B: I'm sorry.

This is apparently a reportable offense by Player A.

A lot of it screams "thought police". Might as well not talk to anyone in game ever again.

You're pretty much prohibited from removing bad players from your groups, too.

[Kaurhz]

Those who keep insisting that all the Prohibited Behavior is just about not being rude either didn't read the Prohibited Behavior page, don't understand the implications with how these could be abused, or are just plain disingenuous. Over half the on the Prohibited Behavior dealing with player interaction has nothing to do with being rude or not.

Because everyone's first thought when entering a duty is how to go on a malicious crusade with other players. You're never going to stop misuse of systems. The problem here is a lot of people here are equally masquerading around on "I can't even give advice because I'll get banned", which I would argue is more a case of "Darn, you mean I can no longer tell players they suck". - I find it almost damningly convenient that this is always the example I see. Either that, or they just simply ought to reflect on how they vocalise this "Advice"

Besides, if I'm being frank people just need to accept that some individuals, or groups just simply misunderstand, or haven't yet grasped even the fundamentals of the core mechanics of the game, or are not yet comfortable conforming to such standards to, for example wall pull.

[SnowVix]

There's already a 30 my minute penalty for leaving. Why, oh why, pray tell, do the devs have the right to threaten us with action against our account for choosing to leave a duty in addition to that? Even if it happens often, that is OUR TIME we are choosing what to do with. Square has no right to tell us we MUST stay. Why even have the leave function to begin with if using it is actionable? It's an outrage honest

it's about leaving the game, i.e. yanking your ethernet cord or force quitting, not leaving the duty. Reading the entire sentence has already alleviated your concern.

[Imora]

I think these changes are good. The stronger stance against toxicity and especially stalking behavior is much appreciated.

The run selling doesn't affect me as I'm nowhere near that level, but I can understand how selling runs can mess with IG economy and the community at large. It's about the strongest stance they can take against it.



Even if this was true, (I honestly don't think anyone, ever, would report this) putting a spotlight on a specific player is a toxic thing to do. People mess up, but blatantly pointing out a singular player as a problem encourages aggro from the rest of the party. In any case I think it's best to OFFER advice, but don't give it unless they ask.

You can only get so far with being vague in telling people what to do.

Sometimes you MUST target an individual that seems to not know they're the problem.

[Imora]

highly unlikely. If you leave because you're being abused, there is evidence of such and since GMs generally lock you in jail to discuss your infringement in game you will have a chance to present that fact.

Most people in my experience don't leave because they're being abused, they leave because the duty will never finish because of people that you can no longer single out to target for advice. Look, if I'm the idiot in the group, I want someone to say something to me specifically in what I'm doing wrong. Being vague about it helps no one and breeds animosity.

There is nothing wrong with targeted criticism.

I'm just done talking to people and doing stuff with randoms. End of it.

[Krotoan]

It's going to be incredibly wonderful to login and watch absolutely nothing change because of this since these were already rules, just not explicitly stated.

The amount of flailing going on in this thread compared to the actual DF experience is a great reminder that the forums ... loud... attitudes towards standards and responsibility are fabulously underrepresented in the actual game.

Most people in my experience don't leave because they're being abused, they leave because the duty will never finish because of people that you can no longer single out to target for advice. Look, if I'm the idiot in the group, I want someone to say something to me specifically in what I'm doing wrong. Being vague about it helps no one and breeds animosity.

Great.. but that isn't what I was replying to. They were specifically talking about how they thought people were encouraging them to weather abuse until they could get all their reporting done.

I'm just done talking to people and doing stuff with randoms. End of it.

You do you of course, but as I said above, this thread is such an outlier of a representation of what's actually going to happen I'd be surprised if any noticeable changes in interactions happened.

[BaconBits]

Oh boy, we needed yet another thread about how big a tank should pull.

Every thread is about tank pulls if you try hard enough.

[LordYolo]

I can understand not being rude, but I can also understand singling out one person if they're the one making the wipe-inducing mistakes. Tho not often, but sometimes yes, there are people who even on general issues don't exactly understand when some advice is directed at them, and thus, don't try to correct things, which can get very annoying for party prog. I understand it's very situational, but those cases are not unrrealistic. So yes, I'd very much like to not feel stressed of asking that one person to get this one thing corrected or right, because if that individual doesn't it, it gets in the way of the gameplay of everybody else. So yeah, I will happily ask in a nice way, but I would very much like to be able to tell a person directly that she should do something in particular in order to not wipe us, without feeling stressed about getting reported for it.

On a similar note. I'd just very much like to have an estimate or an even more precise case when it comes to leaving duties. Cause if a PF said that they are at X step of a fight, I do expect to reach to stage within 30 min of a fight (unless 2 parts), and if not I might leave if the same people make the same mistakes. Should I be reported for leaving when there's just no progress to even reach the step that was agreed to? I know the point is for people that do it repeatedly but that's just the thing. It's a situation that can happen numerous times especially when raid content starts and is active. Lots of people join parties not caring for their own prog or not reading PF specifications. Do I have to endure the entire lockout every time if we don't even reach the standard "objective" we should already all be reaching? Or does this mainly affect duty finder stuff and I should be fine?

EDIT: Yep, realised it said leave the "GAME" or "SERVER", not DUTY, so should be fine.

[LittleImp]

Some very, very interesting things buried in their examples. I'll be interested to see how enforcement actually measures up to these policies, as they've often proved to be more lax than their wording in the past.

The sections about leaving a duty that isn't progressing well, or being unable to even indirectly assign blame for mistakes are both particularly interesting. Hopefully, as in previous cases, these don't really end up getting enforced in PF settings.

[Fawkes]

Just say "Whoops, my house is on fire, gotta go" before you leave the party.