Are some jobs 'too feminine' in aesthetics?

[Aelin_Ashryver]

Ah thank you -- so it is just what is normally worn by each gender I guess -- though is thinking that dresses are for women and suits for men a bad thing? I guess most people would call myself and most of JPN/Asia old fashioned or, worse, prejudiced or something for not knowing what the modern definitions and/or acceptance things should be, so sorry in advance if I offended anyone ^^

Is it a bad thing? Mm I would say think what you want so long as you are content to let others live their lives' without your interference based upon your own preferences. I would say it is only a bad thing if due to your own expectations you tried to control or limit another persons self expression ykno? Similarly, people need to accept that not everyone has the same views as they do and not vilify people with your views! Live and let live, so long as you are not hurting someone what business is it of anyone else?

[Nishira]

Ah thank you -- so it is just what is normally worn by each gender I guess -- though is thinking that dresses are for women and suits for men a bad thing? I guess most people would call myself and most of JPN/Asia old fashioned or, worse, prejudiced or something for not knowing what the modern definitions and/or acceptance things should be, so sorry in advance if I offended anyone ^^

You definitely did not offend me, and I understand your point of view I think for me it hit home many years ago when the son of a friend of mine was around 5 years old. He loved pink. And when he saw a pink shirt with rainbow stars on it, he wanted it so badly and he was so happy when he got it. He went to school all proud and he was made fun of because ‘it is for girls, you’re a boy’ and got punched. He came home, took it off and never wore it again. And later on he himself said that that was for girls.

The thing is tho, it’s just a piece of fabric. Like any other piece of fabric. Pink is just a colour, like any other colour. In a way it is decidedly strange how we agree on some things being feminine or masculine. And even stranger when we can see how in the past we had different agreements on this, or even in different cultures right at this moment. There’s nothing ‘factual’ about it, even tho it gets treated as facts. And it limits personal expression in a way. Should everyone wear pink? No of course not, some dislike the colour very much But that should be the only reason not to.

[Allegor]

Or how about, stay with me now, we even it out and give less robes/dresses/skirts for healers and casters and more jackets and trousers like people are asking for. Which includes women! They want pants too! While ShB has been better about healer and caster gear it is still very one sided rather than balanced. This is explicitly true when it comes to the AF gear. WHM is almost always some kind of Nun or dress styled outfit. Which could look good on a male character, but unless you are a male miq'ote (And like the male viera will be able to pull it off too) it just doesn't fit you. A male Au Ra in the ShB or SB AF gear just looks ridiculous. Like straight up comical. I doubt there would be half of the complaints if these types of outfits were actually tailored to the male bodies but unfortunately many of them are not, or if they are they aren't done right for all of the male models.

Edit: Specifically talking about the WHM AF gear. The main topic is about that, but just thought I would clarify.

I actually think Au Ra are the males that can pull 'feminine' outfits the best of all 8 races simply because of their hourglass waist/hips, which is one of the main traits that separate 'unisex' and 'women's' clothes - one is specifically tailored to highlight the curves, which most men simply don't have, and specially not races like Roegadyn or Highlander.

Also, no, people don't think that just because it's a long robe, it's the same as a dress, it's when that "robe" has a boob window, exposed shoulders or back, a corset, ribbons or frills everywhere, etc that one can't help but question if it was even made as a unisex robe, or whoever designed it only considered one sex over the other - the Edengate dress is a prime example of a set that's explicitly made for female characters. By contrast, the only healer/WHM sets I can think would classify as explicitly 'masculine' are the SB AF gear, the Shisui set, Ghost Barque, and Neo Ishgardian - all of them genderlocked anyways. Everything else is either unisex, just happens to looks better on females, or it's outright feminine.

Should everyone wear pink? No of course not, some dislike the colour very much But that should be the only reason not to.

I agree where you're coming from, but how is 'I don't like frills' different than 'I don't like pink' in that context? if I don't like pink, I can likely just dye it another color, but if I don't like frills, it's not like I can rip them off, I just deal with it or not use the item at all, which limits my options.

[rewd]

Yes, and I dislike it a lot. As a caster main (and male character), I wish caster and healer gear wasn't 1000 types of robes.

I also wish WHM was similar to DNC. DNC has AF sets for male and female characters and they look kinda cool, especially the EW ones. WHM always goes for the holy priestess whatever aestethic which is very annoying.

[Knot_D]

Some of the robes really looks awkward on male Roegadyn...

...Ends up using no clothes at all

[AnnRam]

I had a conversation with a friend earlier who was complaining about White Mage in Endwalker because they believe the AF is too 'dress-like' again, and that many of the animations are 'too feminine' for him - such as the huge lily for Holy 3 and the (in my opinion very cute) heart-shaped lilybell for the Lilybell level 90 skill.

This got me thinking, do people think some jobs (perhaps WHM and DNC) lean more towards certain genders as far as animations/AF gear/etc.? Not wanting to start any arguments about genders or who can wear what, etc. This is merely wondering out of curiosity from a game aesthetics standpoint ^^ I would actually tend to agree with my friend, in that I find WHM to be slightly leaning towards a traditionally feminine aesthetic.

There are some really good Gear for WHM/BLM etc but people keep wearing horrible and disgusting casual glams, specially Sneakers+shorpants/mini skirts and jackets in a mediaeval theme MMO.

[Gemina]

I think some jobs definitely gravitate towards being masculine or feminine themed. Not a big deal. Just kind of how the aesthetic goes with some jobs, abilities, and gear. Flowers and Fairies are very feminine, so it's going to look kind of weird to some folks if a masculine avatar is playing jobs like WHM and SCH due to the contrast. Also not a big deal.

Whither or not these jobs are "too feminine" in aesthetic just confuses me because I don't know what it means in that context. It's like asking me if the sugar is too sweet, or if the sun is too bright. It would make more sense to me to ask if these particular jobs can be made to be less feminine. In which case I would ask back, "Why?" Because that's like asking if sugar can be made less sweet, or the sun less bright. In which case I ask, "Why would you want to do that? Because then you make them into something they aren't."

[Kranel_San]

I had a conversation with a friend earlier who was complaining about White Mage in Endwalker because they believe the AF is too 'dress-like' again, and that many of the animations are 'too feminine' for him - such as the huge lily for Holy 3 and the (in my opinion very cute) heart-shaped lilybell for the Lilybell level 90 skill.

This got me thinking, do people think some jobs (perhaps WHM and DNC) lean more towards certain genders as far as animations/AF gear/etc.? Not wanting to start any arguments about genders or who can wear what, etc. This is merely wondering out of curiosity from a game aesthetics standpoint ^^ I would actually tend to agree with my friend, in that I find WHM to be slightly leaning towards a traditionally feminine aesthetic.

That's what annoys me about WHM too. Too many dresses as AF and the casting animations are.. meh.
But I liked the gameplay so I just ignored the existence of the AF and went on a glam hunt to find a proper glam to wear, and over time I leveled other jobs ( Including other healers ) and I only used WHM recently for some DR speedruns, otherwise my main for healing is SCH and AST is a good alternative to WHM so right now for me I have no reason to play WHM

Point is, sometimes not all jobs in the game are for everyone. What we can do is either leave them behind or try changing how they look on our characters. Otherwise not much can be done about that since everyone has their own personal preferences.

[Duskane]

I'd agree WHM af might be too one note,
but Caster/Healer sets in general for ShB have not been feminine at all

[Absurdity]

I too remember the last time I went out in a full suit of armour.

Wait, you mean you don't go out to buy bread in a full suit of well-tempered steel plate armour? It's dangerous out there!