I'm gonna say it. cause no one else will.

[ty_taurus]

By that logic two buttons would be enough for all classes. Who needs diversity?

But that's not what you really want. You want a white mage that go full super saiyan and do the work of a black mage, too.

Dark knights have a full kit to support themselves in and out of dungeons and so do healers, but in groups they have a specific role and they are given a wide range of abilities to make it possible. Same goes for healers, BUT WAIT healers can do more. They have a massive amount of healer spells AND they can even add dps. But for some, even that singularly unique trait that no other class apart from healers can claim, that just doesn't seem to be enough.

Can you stop being hyperbolic please?

What people want: Engaging gameplay when healing is not needed, meaning not just for raids, but also dungeons, MSQ, FATEs, etc. "Engaging" can mean a lot of things. What does that look like? You'll get a lot of different answers, and ultimately we'd need to test changes before saying that they'd work, but this is what I'd like in WHM for example:

1. Add Water in at level 15, and it can eventually upgrade into Banish or something silmilar.
A GCD spell that's slightly stronger than Stone/Glare (Perhaps 350 potency to Glare III's 310).
- MP Cost is 400
- Instant Cast time
- 15 Second Recast time (3 charges)
It's simple, yet it offers you some extra damage alongside mobility, and you can afford to hold onto charges for mobility purposes. Just a little extra spice to the direct DPS spells.

2. Integrate the lily system at much lower levels, ideally with Afflatus Misery or a weaker alternative available at level 50, and expand upon the lily system in a way that allows WHM to close and/or surpass the gap between misery's DPS and 4 Glare IIIs. I've gone back and forth with a lot of ideas on this specifically, but one simple idea would be something like:

- Keep Afflatus Misery's DPS updated with Glare upgrades to be worth 3 Glares
- i.e. Update it's potency to 930 based on the media tour build.

- A GCD spell that grants 1 lily and nourishes the blood lily 2 times
- Costs 1200 MP
It creates a risk-reward factor in using your MP, to gain offers something for Thin Air to work with other than Raise and would allow you to use Misery in 3 GCDs, making it DPS neutral. Since you need to nourish the blood lily 3 times, you also can't spam this.

- A GCD lily spell that restores 2000 MP to yourself
- Has a 60 second recast (2 charges)
Helps you recover MP if you've been overzealous but also can't be spammed. Also gives you a potential lily dump if you need it.

- Give Holy and Holy III a trait where your next cast of Holy/Holy III nourishes the blood lily after consuming a regular lily.
- This helps you ultimately turn Misery into a small DPS gain when using that 1200 MP cost spell to keep your lily nourished throughout a fight.

Something like this still needs adjustments, but it would result in less time casting Glare and more time focusing on your lilies while also giving you more lilies to use for healing. It also gives Holy a reason to be cast in single target situations which is even better for passive healers since you can cast it without having to target the boss. If we could work out the kinks, I think that would benefit both casual and experienced WHM players.

This is by far not the ONLY way to do WHM, but it's just an example to show that engagement doesn't have to mean adding a 1-2-3 combo and could increase the skill ceiling while ultimately not punishing casual healers.

[Drkdays]

Correct, I disagree with you without reading why you think changes are needed. Know why? Because I enjoy playing WHM and I don't want to see a change to the class based purely on people's desire to make it more deadly. Let healers heal and dps dps and tanks tank. Don't like it, play WoW where a holy priest can out dps a elemental shaman and never die either. Keep that nonsense away from 14.

As for "busywork" between heals, be happy heals have any dps abilities at all. Naturally they don't want to create a dps rotation that healers would potentially become so distracted by they fail at their true role

[Silver-Strider]

Lilybell's okay. I think it would be better if it could be assigned to a partymember and activating when they take damage (like the tank) vs it going off when the caster gets hit. Also, its AoE should be 30 yalms so it isn't wasted when the party has to spread.

(Aesthetically, I think its too cutesy and is a bit on the gaudy-side. They built WHM up to be elegant and refined but then added this kawaii water heart with flowers on it.)

There's a couple of issues with the skill.
As you said, the radius of it is problematic since it can end up not healing someone that is just outside its range.

The lack of control on the skill is another problem I have with the skill. The WHM needs to take damage for the skill to work, else it just expires in 15 seconds and becomes a crappier Earthly Star on a 3 minute CD. So in casual content, like a Dungeon, where the Healer is taking minimal damage, if at all, its just relatively useless for 15 seconds unless the WHM goes out of their way to take damage just to force a proc and if the Tank can survive for 15 seconds without any other healing required, then Lilybell wasn't needed in the 1st place. Now, in the cases that the WHM is taking consistent damage, such as in J-Waves of TEA, and can get the full benefits of the skill, its fine but in every other case, its just not that great a skill. Making it tied to someone else, like the tank, would alleviate some of the issue with the skill but even that isn't fool proof either, such as in instances where Tank swaps are needed or in 24 man where your tank isn't the MT and thus isn't taking damage either. Sure, using casual content as an argument is kind of meh, but when I compare Lilybell to something like Macrocosmos, which is much more flexible in its usage and does work in all instances regardless, it just feels so underwhelming in comparison.

[Melorie]

Correct, I disagree with you without reading

Then stop pretending you know what people are talking about.

[Acece]

Correct, I disagree with you without reading why you think changes are needed. Know why? Because I enjoy playing WHM and I don't want to see a change to the class based purely on people's desire to make it more deadly. Let healers heal and dps dps and tanks tank. Don't like it, play WoW where a holy priest can out dps a elemental shaman and never die either. Keep that nonsense away from 14.

When has holy priest done more damage then elemental shaman? Closest thing I've seen is holy paladin doing tank damage.
Also we really shouldn't cater to people who just play whm we should cater to their mains.

[Drkdays]

nope you didn't ,in fact asking that we don't dps is basically asking to change the game from its core.
so basically you are saying you are destroying ff14 then? and if you understand why people want to change them then why do you assume they want to be dps that heals? when they said no, we want to do more support to the team when healing not needed repeatedly.
seriously go read the comments, its embarrassing that you claim to know what people ask only to get it so so wrong.

I never said healers shouldn't dps. If you won't read what I wrote then I won't read what you wrote.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Find us comments in response to ShB healing state where majority healer mains stated specifically that they want to do more dps than they already are as of now, then. You can theorize all you want but they are weightless in face of how healing actually happens in real practice.

More dps button =/= do more dps, don’t even try.
More things to do =/= do more dps, not even close.
More interesting downtime options =/= do more dps, try again.
More complex mechanic =/= do more dps, just stop.

Oh wait, you don’t care to understand at all? Well great, that saves so much time, thanks! Next.

[ty_taurus]

Correct, I disagree with you without reading why you think changes are needed. Know why? Because I enjoy playing WHM and I don't want to see a change to the class based purely on people's desire to make it more deadly. Let healers heal and dps dps and tanks tank. Don't like it, play WoW where a holy priest can out dps a elemental shaman and never die either. Keep that nonsense away from 14.

But that's kind of the problem. Healers don't heal, at least not at enough of a volume to warrant not having anything to do when no healing is needed. In order to keep the role easy and attractive to casual players, SE has taken a stance of heavily spreading out unavoidable damage to give healers a pretty large amount of breathing room to mend mistakes, even in savage. What you get as a result is a pretty significant amount of time where no one's even taking damage--the tank often getting slapped with a feather until mechanics and raidwides get dished out. That's not even taking into account MSQ fights which are often really cool but mind-numbingly slow and monotonous for healers.

Many of us would probably be a lot more content if the damage being pumped out significantly increased, but that would not benefit the casual healer at all. Giving healers more ways to optimize their damage as well as potentially warrant GCD utility usage more frequently is the best thing we can hope to achieve that can actually keep casual players from becoming overwhelmed while also letting experienced players have more fun with a role that, right now, has very little to offer of fun for anyone who's gotten through the honeymoon phase, as someone else had put it.

[Grimoire-M]

-snip-

The thing that destroyed WoW wasn't their core loop. It was the garbage systems surrounding it. Maintaining basic upkeep for content of any sort (nevermind raiding) and gearing in that game is a goddamned nightmare compared to here, where you can join a hunt train for an hour to cap tomestones and then do literally anything you want. Savage only requires you to buy food for prog and you can save pots for clears, making the actual costs extremely low. You don't even need crafted gear unless you're pushing for week one full clears. You can legit go into each tier on last tier's BiS and clear weeklies to farm your way to the min item level reqs for the last two bosses if that's all you want to do for Savage, and by the time an Ultimate fight comes out you'll likely already have BiS or be fairly close to it if you're only interested in it on your main job. The only reason you'd do something extra for it is if you wanted to abuse Relic for the sync stats, and that's entirely optional and frankly not even worth the time unless you actively enjoy the relic grind to begin with.

This game does not ask you to build out whatever a fucking garrison or artifact weapon is (I assume it is like the stuff we get in Bozja/Eureka but way more asinine) then flip the diablo drop lever thousands of times just to get a core ability/trait that is tied to a piece of gear or that subsystem. The one time we even remotely had that was Diadem, for substat gambling on gear, and it was never considered BiS until the expansion reached essentially the same point we have been at for three months now. And when players complained SE -literally threw that out-.

That said, the reason people are asking for DPS rotations on healers specifically is engagement. You want Glare spammers to not fall asleep and ignore you messing up a mechanic? Give them something to think about when things aren't going wrong. That's all that we are asking for. I literally do not care what form that additional attention takes, but ultimately the reason we settle on DPS rotations is so healing requirements don't have to go up in casual and hard content alike, nor do we expect to get more support or more focus on crowd control, as all of those are things SE themselves has stated they literally do not want to do. Hence we choose the vectors that can be influenced with minimal resource cost, as it's unreasonable to expect SE to rework 10 years of content to cater to a call for increased healing demands everywhere.

And the crazy part? This is how XIV worked for half of its lifetime. We had healer DoT rotations all the way through Stormblood. This one-Button filler rotation is the aberration, not the other way around. Heavensward and ARR also had more of a GCD healing focus too. Why? we had less healing cooldowns to work with. Stormblood is where we started seeing a shift towards this simplification by not getting any new DPS buttons while Scholar started seeing some pruning, Shadowbringers actively cut that part out across all three healers while keeping the same trend of adding more healing cooldowns. Endwalker's adding minor QoL to our DPS spells but otherwise what it is adding is -barely- relevant. Every healer's Lilybell equivalent is basically there to make sure we do jack all through Terminal Relativity-like mechanics while their single target buff is a free tank cooldown when tanks somehow continue to forget they have mitigation in Expert roulette. That's it. Each healer already has at least four oGCDs for both of those situations already. We literally do not need any more of them.

[Drkdays]

Forms of assistance, mitigation, buffs, and other such things are wildly different from new forms of dps. I'm all for finding ways to make that down time more engaging, even if I feel like there are already plenty of things to do during a boss fight in which death could happen at any second and dps options DO already exist.

But all I'm reading is more dps buttons, more damaging abilities. And that's where I draw my line in the dirt. I feel like people don't even know what they're asking for. They just want MORE, and that troubles me greatly.