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  1. #1
    Player
    MellowMink's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    640
    Character
    Mello Minkus
    World
    Faerie
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    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    From what Emet-Selch says, it was an intentional part of Hydaelyn's construction and powerset; she divides, that is the point.

    HOWEVER! We need to remember that Emet-Selch is a big fat liar about many things, and is actually most frequently incorrect about Hydaelyn. Which is fair enough--he literally was not there for any part of Hydaelyn's formulation, so he doesn't know anything about the intentions, only the results--but it means that we can't really trust him one bit on this.
    Emet-Selch also literally tells us that he and many of the other Ascians were tempered by Zodiark, so he's mentally incapable of not being biased to some extent; lots of people seem to forget that.

    Of course, we could have been unknowingly tempered (not merely protected) by Hydaelyn at some point but in a more subtle manner, which would be pretty spooky.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
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    Solution Eight (it's not as good)
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    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by MellowMink View Post
    Of course, we could have been unknowingly tempered (not merely protected) by Hydaelyn at some point but in a more subtle manner, which would be pretty spooky.
    The notion that we're tempered was debunked literally, like, three sentences after it was ever suggested. It is an argument with zero grounding beyond 'wouldn't it be neat if'*.

    I made a video that explicitly talks about this (as well as other details about the Blessing of Light), but in short: Ifrit, the second most temper-happy primal we've ever met (which i would say definitely qualifies him as a subject matter expert in a story like this), specifically shoots down the Amal'jaa priest's allegation that we're tempered--which is something with exceptional weight, given how rare it is that primals go against their summoners. And for the record, we already had the Blessing of Light and an awakened Echo at this point, because we already had a crystal of light. But if you consider Ifrit directly saying this is wrong to be an inapplicable source, it then has to be approached as an angle of 'how would the writers hint at this and what opportunities would they be taking'. And there's just no hints, despite ample potential setup: Emet-Selch was the guy that outright says Hydaelyn's a primal and that Zodiark tempered him, and he wouldn't have passed up an opportunity to shake our faith; Elidibus also has the subject of tempering come up around him and would have had every reason to announce it to save face; Fandaniel is wielding tempering as a weapon and had a perfect chance to screw with us.

    On the other side of the morality scale, Y'shtola, Urianger, and G'raha Tia are all qualified experts in exactly these fields, and are all equipped with the knowledge that Hydaelyn is a primal and now knowledge of what the symptoms of tempering actually are. To a lesser but still significant extent, we also have Alisaie not just studying how to cure tempering, but specifically having the first cases be focused on an overabundance of light aether, which hypothetical Hydaelyn tempering would be. And not a single one of them says anything about this possibility, not even in 5.55 when every single one of them is in the same room directly discussing the WoL's relationship with Hydaelyn.

    All of those characters on both sides of the story are set up as 'smart people whose beliefs and hypotheses should be considered in some way trustworthy and accurate', and yet none of them have even so much as hinted at the possibility that Hydaelyn has tempered us. Almost like the thing Ifrit said way back in 2.0 was accurate. And frankly, if you can't trust 'a direct statement denying this and a refusal to acknowledge the subject by every form of subject matter expert the game's had', I'm not actually sure how the game could tell you this isn't true. A twist like that needs some seeds sown before the sudden payoff, and they just don't exist.

    *And incidentally, no, it wouldn't really be neat or spooky. Outside of the shock value, it either does nothing or hollows out the entire experience of the game thus far. And neither of those are fun or worth it.

    Apologies for coming off a bit strong here, but as an enormous lorehound, this is a real bugbear of mine. It's not just a theory with no evidence, it's a theory with negative evidence, because it was specifically shut down.
    (3)
    Last edited by Cleretic; 10-22-2021 at 04:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    Vicious Zvahl
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    it's a theory with negative evidence, because it was specifically shut down.
    It actually doesn't have any negative evidence though. Ifrit's line is in regards to the Echo. Which he is right about, but he may just not be able to perceive Hydaelyn's tempering (consider that most of the world doesn't know that Hydaelyn is just a primal). It's also worth noting that Ifrit telling his priest how it is isn't all that drastic a thing, because the priest still worships Ifrit as god. The Primals give commands out to their followers and the followers obey often. They're not completely slaves to their summoner's will. Not really sure where you've got that idea from, exactly.

    As for why other villains or our allies haven't given many big hints or dropped the bomb yet... I imagine if the WoL being tempered is a thing, it's something that's going to be a minor inconvenience at worst, which will be overhyped by the ally cast. The villains I imagine don't care so much, because it doesn't change much for their conflict with us.

    But anyway, I imagine the Scions wouldn't want to give voice to the possibility because it'd be too painful a reality for them to realize. Imagine the greatest hero you know, the person you respect above all others... is that way through primal compulsion, at least partially. Would they have been the hero they are now without the compulsion? Have we been accepting a necessary evil as yet another burden? In this manner you could say that Y'shtola asking about your relationship with Hydaelyn as a seed or hint to start thinking about whether you are/were Tempered to Hydaelyn. You can also take the cave painting scene that shows Hydaelyn colored individuals beneath her, possibly representing her followers as tempered as a hint too.

    Also other things in this post that I'm going to nitpick... The first cases of actual Tempering that were cured were Earth aspected aether(still inclined towards stasis but whatever). The light aspected Sineater turning sickness was the proving ground because it was similar to Tempering. It wasn't Tempering. And the symptoms to Tempering vary depending on the Tempered individuals length of being tempered, how strong their soul is, what elemental aspect it's inclined towards, what race they are(Sylphs turned purple, yo), and who tempered them. I don't think we actually have any bonafide know it alls, though our Scion Accomplices are still the authorities in the field.

    All I'm really getting at though, is that it could still go either way. There's enough wiggle room if they want to pull it off. Won't make or break the story for me, and I doubt it'd be a surprise to many people if it were the case. I'm sure if they did reveal the WoL to be Tempered, it would merely be for making the Scions lament how much of a burden we face in holding the world on our shoulders, and how they'll have to rectify that someday in someway, somehow. uwu boohoo
    (3)

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    "I thought that my invincible power would hold the world captive, leaving me in a freedom undisturbed. Thus night and day I worked at the chain with huge fires and cruel hard strokes. When at last the work was done and the links were complete and unbreakable, I found that it held me in its grip." - Rabindranath Tagore