Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

[Eien713]

Cactbot knows exactly what a mechanic is going to do to you the instant the cast associated with it begins even if the visual tells don't show until several seconds later.

That extra time gives players a huge advantage during certain ultimate mechanics like Wormhole Formation or Future Simulation where the entire challenge is just trying to figure what's going to happen to you and positioning accordingly..

To add to this, those programs give an advantage to some players over others. Play Station players can't have these programs installed, so the people using the programs are cheating. It's not fair if everyone isn't competing on an equal footing. So if these people are gonna use programs, they shouldn't compete for world firsts (dunno whether the program can work when the content is still new). If you ask me, FF14's raiding scene would become way less interesting if people started using programs left and right.

[Sotaris]

To add to this, those programs give an advantage to some players over others. Play Station players can't have these programs installed, so the people using the programs are cheating. It's not fair if everyone isn't competing on an equal footing. So if these people are gonna use programs, they shouldn't compete for world firsts (dunno whether the program can work when the content is still new). If you ask me, FF14's raiding scene would become way less interesting if people started using programs left and right.

It won't be used for world first cause there wouldn't be any created timelines for cactbot.

[Eien713]

It won't be used for world first cause there wouldn't be any created timelines for cactbot.

Good to know.

[Enjuden]

It won't be used for world first cause there wouldn't be any created timelines for cactbot.

That is the most blatant lie I have ever read on this forum, and I've seen a lot. Are you seriously going to tell me that world first groups will not hire someone to code that specific timeline? Really? I guarantee you this will happen on the new Ultimate for world first prog.

XIVAlexander does a lot, and I do mean a lot of things that are good. But it's also a blatant third party cheat because the developers made the game so dysfunctional for people with medium to high latency. Zero animation lock for perfect triple weave (which you can never ever do normally), being able to tell exactly where melee range is on the screen always via a hud display, the ability to know exactly what to do years ahead of when the mechanic comes out. It's DBD if the developers of it were allowed to completely break the flow of the game itself. If you want an extreme example, you could double weave during Hypercharge with that program.

Don't be an apologist.

Edit - Slash through is different plug in/changed wording to not associate the two. Woops.

[Saraide]

That is the most blatant lie I have ever read on this forum, and I've seen a lot. Are you seriously going to tell me that world first groups will not hire someone to code that specific timeline? Really? I guarantee you this will happen on the new Ultimate.

Cactbot does a lot, and I do mean a lot of things that are good. But it's also a blatant third party cheat because the developers made the game so dysfunctional for people with medium to high latency. Zero animation lock for triple weave (which you can never ever do normally), being able to tell exactly where melee range is on the screen always via a hud display, the ability to know exactly what to do years ahead of when the mechanic comes out. It's DBD if the developers of it were allowed to completely break the flow of the game itself.

Don't be an apologist.

I think you are mixing in XIVAlexander (and maybe a few other plugins) there with cactbot. Cactbot is just the timers and the callouts. A world first party would have to create all the callout triggers themselves, that's literally them learning the fight. There is no homework they can copy from.

[Enjuden]

I think you are mixing in XIVAlexander (and maybe a few other plugins) there with cactbot. Cactbot is just the timers and the callouts. A world first party would have to create all the callout triggers themselves, that's literally them learning the fight. There is no homework they can copy from.

Probably. Looking back on history it's XIVAlexander and its associated plugins. I've come from WoW and did DBD and all of that, so it was a relief to not deal with it during raid for the most part.

Also not exactly true either. The main argument against it is that you're removing human error once you allow scripts to call out the fights for you. That doesn't mean a player cannot fail the mechanic. But it's how far ahead the mechanic is called out that is the argument here. A rather big example is knowing exactly where Ifrit would land for UwU for his phase. Would it be a mechanic if you knew exactly where he would be before he even landed?

Edit: Also well aware of these things, as well as the speed some are able to code on such, Quah. Why do you need the callout? Dunno, tell me where Ultima Weapon, Garuda, and Ifrit will land before they are even on the screen in UWU and tell me it isn't a significant advantage.

Is it needed? No. Is it an advantage some will have over others, and will this push groups faster? Probably.

[Saraide]

Probably. Looking back on history it's XIVAlexander and its associated plugins. I've come from WoW and did DBD and all of that, so it was a relief to not deal with it during raid for the most part.

Also not exactly true either. The main argument against it is that you're removing human error once you allow scripts to call out the fights for you. That doesn't mean a player cannot fail the mechanic. But it's how far ahead the mechanic is called out that is the argument here. A rather big example is knowing exactly where Ifrit would land for UwU for his phase. Would it be a mechanic if you knew exactly where he would be before he even landed?

Edit: Also well aware of these things, as well as the speed some are able to code on such, Quah. Why do you need the callout? Dunno, tell me where Ultima Weapon, Garuda, and Ifrit will land before they are even on the screen in UWU and tell me it isn't a significant advantage.

They would have to find all about how a mechanic works out first which is a major time loss as that could be time spent on progging the next mechanic. World first strats are usually extremely scuffed so whatever works first they stick with. We also know that cactbot is not and never will be required for clearing anything so bothering with it in a world first race is just not worth it. By the time you have the knowledge to create a timeline you dont need it anymore.

[TheRealQuah]

That is the most blatant lie I have ever read on this forum, and I've seen a lot. Are you seriously going to tell me that world first groups will not hire someone to code that specific timeline? Really? I guarantee you this will happen on the new Ultimate for world first prog.

Cactbot does a lot, and I do mean a lot of things that are good. But it's also a blatant third party cheat because the developers made the game so dysfunctional for people with medium to high latency. Zero animation lock for perfect triple weave (which you can never ever do normally), being able to tell exactly where melee range is on the screen always via a hud display, the ability to know exactly what to do years ahead of when the mechanic comes out. It's DBD if the developers of it were allowed to completely break the flow of the game itself. If you want an extreme example, you could double weave during Hypercharge with that program.

Don't be an apologist.

You're talking about XIVAlexander, which is straight up a cheat tool, telling the server you have negative ping. If anyone does do what you stated above and double weave in hypercharge, then the server would pick up on it and they would get banned.

Cactbot is never used for world first, reason being you don't need to, because the fight will be cleared much quicker than someone can code a timeline.

Do you know you have to fully know how the mechanic works before being able to write a cactbot callout for it, and if you fully know how it works, why do you need the call out? Not just that, but every world first uses scuffed strats, and they straight up don't even know how some mechanics work until days after.

[Saraide]

Jesus. I forgot XIVAlexander existed. That's yet another thing that needs to be axed. From my understanding, people tend to use that if they have very bad lag issues, but then you get folks who use it that don't have that issue to get an advantage. This thread isn't just about Cactpot (even though that's what I was primarily mentioning in my OP), but anything that is crossing the line. This definitely fits that description.

XIVAlexander does far more good than it does harm. At most XIVAlexander can disrupt the top ranks on fflogs if used by someone very competent and even then you are very much held back by the resource generation and the cooldowns your job has. Wow what a nightmare.
Meanwhile it allows people to play with friends from other regions without having to restrict themselves to the lag friendly jobs.