Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

[Eien713]

Is watching a youtube guide also cheating then? It's practically the same thing.

I guess we're of opposite opinions on the matter, cheating implies however you have an advantage over others and I don't think you gain any advantage of getting it called out by a overlay vs having a raid leader say same thing or watch a video.

Watching a video isn't the same as using a program because you make an effort to memorize stuff and then you juggle playing your class while still paying attention to what's going on around you, to the boss, to the boss's castbar, and you rely on the info you have in your head, your reflexes, your decision-making, your ability to adjust, etc. It's just not the same. People use guides because they may not be that good at figuring out mechanics. Nothing wrong with this.
To me, this is the ranking I see: People who go in blind and figure out mechanics > People who watch guides >>>>>>>>>>>>>> People who use programs.

A lot of times, callouts are not 'on the fly'. They come from a raider who knows the mechanics and know when they will happen, because the fights are scripted.

This would still be better than a simple program doing the call-outs. To me, the human element is essential, especially at the start of the raiding experience. After you clear the content multiple times and you want to make things easier for yourself, I probably wouldn't think much of using a program. But if you use a program for your first clear, that's a completely different story.

[Sotaris]

This would still be better than a simple bot doing them

I thought we were discussing the usage of Cactbot. It's not a bot even if the maker put "bot" in the name. It a simple TTS callout. A bot implies automation, playing the game for you.

By bot, I mean a program. If this bothers you so much and might cause confusion, I'll edit my posts.

Doesn't "bother" me. You need to use the proper names for things or it will cause confusion and get disingenuous.

[Eien713]

I thought we were discussing the usage of Cactbot. It's not a bot even if the maker put "bot" in the name. It a simple TTS callout. A bot implies automation, playing the game for you.

By bot, I mean a program. If this bothers you so much and might cause confusion, I'll edit my posts.

Not very surprising. They come from a game where DBM is the norm. It would be quite the big change both gameplay and culture wise to expect them to take the visual queues like we been doing for years.

This is also why you see so many ex-wow players wanting to change the UI elements instead of using the default ones.

The thing is, other WoW streamers seem to have done their homework before jumping into FF14 raiding (at least the ones I've seen) and they didn't go in it with their WoW mentality and relying on programs. Now a real question: Do WoW raiders use programs for their first clears too, when the raid is till new?

Doesn't "bother" me. You need to use the proper names for things or it will cause confusion and get disingenuous.

The way I understand it, a bot is a sort of automation. So in this case, it's an automation of calling out mechanics instead of the person doing it. If my understanding is incorrect, then my bad.

[Sotaris]

The thing is, other WoW streamers seem to have done their homework before jumping into FF14 raiding (at least the ones I've seen) and they didn't go in it with their WoW mentality and relying on programs. Now a real question: Do WoW raiders use programs for their first clears too, when the raid is till new?

I haven't raided in wow in over a decade but I would be surprised if people are not using DBM for progression, which isn't a program - it's a addon.

I see. I personally think that using a program (especially for progression) takes away so much from the experience, and while to each their own, I really hope this doesn't become the norm in FF14 raiding.

I don't think it will. I wouldn't be worried. Those who use it fair play. It doesn't take anything away or make them cheaters imo. Those who don't use it, also fair. You do you.

[Eien713]

I haven't raided in wow in over a decade but I would be surprised if people are not using DBM for progression, which isn't a program - it's a addon.

I see. I personally think that using a program (especially for progression) takes away so much from the experience, and while to each their own, I really hope this doesn't become the norm in FF14 raiding.

[Endariel]

I was in 2 statics and none used a program for the calls. Why? Because in both cases the raid caller did an incredible job of remembering the mechs, spotting them and their order. Even if the fight was fresh.
Quite frankly, a skilled raid caller > TTC because rc can dictate how to move to do the mechanic. Example: mirrors + hallowed wings from e8s
But, TTC has it's use in pugs where everyone is on their own.

[LariaKirin]

Folks try to rationalize this as ok by saying, 'oh it's no different than having your raid lead call it', but let me counter with this; does your raid lead have precognition and can tell the order of random mechanics before they happen all the time? If not, then you're cheating. Plain and simple.

I will add to this:

• Your raid leader can make mistakes.
• Your raid leader cannot give your entire party individual callouts per your role in the mechanic.
• Your raid leader cannot give you callouts faster than the mechanic's in-game visual cues or with zero delay.

Stop rationalizing it and own it. You're using it to make the game easier.

[Sotaris]

I will add to this:

• Your raid leader can make mistakes.
• Your raid leader cannot give your entire party individual callouts per your role in the mechanic.
• Your raid leader cannot give you callouts faster than the mechanic's in-game visual cues or with zero delay.

Stop rationalizing it and own it. You're using it to make the game easier.

If people want an help in the ear, that's for them to decide. I don't see it being such a travesty. If they want an easier fight by getting callouts on their end so be it.
I dunno man, seems like crying over nothing cause a smal number of raiders use a overlay to learn the fights their way and doesn't affect anyone.

There was a difference during ultimate showing where gaol would spawn vs having a visible timeline and have the option to have a TTS call it out for you.

[LisSquid]

I could pop the Dwayne strat sheet in this topic and some people might explode

[LariaKirin]

If people want an help in the ear, that's for them to decide. I don't see it being such a travesty. If they want an easier fight by getting callouts on their end so be it.
I dunno man, seems like crying over nothing cause a smal number of raiders use a overlay to learn the fights their way and doesn't affect anyone.

There was a difference during ultimate showing where gaol would spawn vs having a visible timeline and have the option to have a TTS call it out for you.

Sure, do what you want, no one can stop you. But "it's not any different than raid lead callouts" is delusion.