WHM Revisions and Ideas

[inhaledcorn]

To address this issue, I would to expand the Lily System to remain relevant for WHM with the introduction of 2 new Afflatus abilities,

Honestly, I don't think that's totally necessary. I think if they just make Thin Air a skill that applies the Lily effect to any of WHM's healing skills, you get the same thing you want without increasing the button bloat. Basically, new Thin Air would be like this:

Thin Air

Your next healing spell will cost 0 MP.

Additional Effect: When the spell is cast, nourishes the Blood Lily

Healing Gauge cost: 1 Lily

Additionally, I believe I've already discussed with you why Lilybell costing lilies is a bad idea. Since Lilybell is an oGCD, using it on cooldown will always be a dps gain for nourishing the Blood Lily. On top of that, making it cost three Lilies, as per your suggestion, means that every other Lily action is basically unviable.

[Silver-Strider]

Honestly, I don't think that's totally necessary. I think if they just make Thin Air a skill that applies the Lily effect to any of WHM's healing skills, you get the same thing you want without increasing the button bloat. Basically, new Thin Air would be like this:

Additionally, I believe I've already discussed with you why Lilybell costing lilies is a bad idea. Since Lilybell is an oGCD, using it on cooldown will always be a dps gain for nourishing the Blood Lily. On top of that, making it cost three Lilies, as per your suggestion, means that every other Lily action is basically unviable.

There's 2 ways I'm reading your Thin Air suggestion.

1) Thin Air now costs a lily to use. That would be a massive nerf to Thin Air cause then I would always have to hold on to a Lily on the off chance someone dies or I have to pay the full price for a rez.

or

2) I need a Lily to cast my next healing spell to nourish the Blood Lily and if I don't have 1, I'm out of luck towards making progress for Misery, and even if I do have a lily to burn, it wouldn't result in a DPS gain because I would still need to cast 2 other Lily skills as well as Misery vs the 4 Glare casts that Misery is competing with.

Neither option resolves the issue with the Lily system being a DPS loss for WHM and creates new problems instead.

Now, I do concede that Lilybell costing 3 lilies can potentially make the other Lily Abilities unviable, in which case, Lilybell's CD can be adjusted so that it isn't always available, giving the other Lily skills a time and place for usage; Hell, with how much I packed into Lilybell, it would actually warrant the 3 minute CD that its currently looking to be strapped with and I appreciate giving me that insight for it.

However, the primary reason I suggest putting it on both the Lily System and on the GCD is because it doesn't interact with WHM's toolkit in its current form. It doesn't gain benefits from Temperance or PI and unless Asylum is up with it, the 400 potency heal tics just aren't enough to justify a 3 minute CD. Not only that but it actively goes against normal healer protocol and encourages the WHM to take damage so that they can sit there and cast Glare more since the Lilybell will heal the party; IT'S THE LEYLINES OF WHM!!!! I can already see WHM's trying desperately to squeeze out the most damage possible while Lilybell is up, siting in an easily avoidable AoE just so that they can cast Glare and that is a problem. Lilybell in its current form is a TERRIBLE ability, from either a DPS perspective or a healer one. It needs to be changed and I'm entirely open to any and all suggestions to do so.

[inhaledcorn]

<snip>

Thin Air has already been massively nerfed. The only thing this changes is that you can't use Thin Air on Glare, Holy, or, yes, Raise. The other healers have to eat the Raise cost. You just have to either deal with it, stop dps from being dumb, or leave them on the floor to think about what they did. You want Afflatus Medica II and Afflatus Cure III. This basically does the same thing without adding to the button bloat.

The problem right now with Misery is that it's not DPS neutral. This is easily fixed by making the potencies equal to 3 casts Glare/Glare III (when the trait is granted upgrading Glare to Glare III). This also leads to some interesting optimization since using Misery under buff windows essentially gets you two extra casts of Glare.

From what we know currently about Lilybell: 1) it's cooldown is absurdly long and 2) the WHM has no control over it. If it was 90s and the WHM could manually trigger the skill, Lilybell would be an extremely powerful and effective healing tool. Heck, I would even throw in a duration buff to 30s. Now, you have plenty of chances to plan out how it's used. WHM doesn't need this sort of thing on the GCD. What it needs is more oGCD healing options, especially since Assize isn't really used as a healing tool, and WHM now has more convenient weaving windows.

Speaking of Assize, Assize should be split into two buttons: Assize (for the heal) and Banish (with the damage and mp regen). This leaves Assize to be used as its intended purpose but still leaves WHM with a good damage ability with some MP regeneration to be used for damage windows. Honestly, I would give WHM Fluid Aura back with 2 charges on a 45s timer and just give it the damage aspect. No knockback or Bind. Again, more damage options on WHM since it's supposed to be the "my damage is my damage utility" healer like Sage. While, yes, this is increasing button bloat, something I criticized about adding new Afflatus skills, but healers want more damage options, and I think this fills that idea while still fitting within WHM's identity.

[Silver-Strider]

Thin Air has already been massively nerfed. The only thing this changes is that you can't use Thin Air on Glare, Holy, or, yes, Raise. The other healers have to eat the Raise cost. You just have to either deal with it, stop dps from being dumb, or leave them on the floor to think about what they did. You want Afflatus Medica II and Afflatus Cure III. This basically does the same thing without adding to the button bloat.

The problem right now with Misery is that it's not DPS neutral. This is easily fixed by making the potencies equal to 3 casts Glare/Glare III (when the trait is granted upgrading Glare to Glare III). This also leads to some interesting optimization since using Misery under buff windows essentially gets you two extra casts of Glare.

From what we know currently about Lilybell: 1) it's cooldown is absurdly long and 2) the WHM has no control over it. If it was 90s and the WHM could manually trigger the skill, Lilybell would be an extremely powerful and effective healing tool. Heck, I would even throw in a duration buff to 30s. Now, you have plenty of chances to plan out how it's used. WHM doesn't need this sort of thing on the GCD. What it needs is more oGCD healing options, especially since Assize isn't really used as a healing tool, and WHM now has more convenient weaving windows.

Speaking of Assize, Assize should be split into two buttons: Assize (for the heal) and Banish (with the damage and mp regen). This leaves Assize to be used as its intended purpose but still leaves WHM with a good damage ability with some MP regeneration to be used for damage windows. Honestly, I would give WHM Fluid Aura back with 2 charges on a 45s timer and just give it the damage aspect. No knockback or Bind. Again, more damage options on WHM since it's supposed to be the "my damage is my damage utility" healer like Sage. While, yes, this is increasing button bloat, something I criticized about adding new Afflatus skills, but healers want more damage options, and I think this fills that idea while still fitting within WHM's identity.

Ok, I'm just going to chalk this up as a troll now.

The only reason to bring a WHM currently in end game is for the safety net it provides in preventing wipes due to its ability to effortlessly cast rez without issue and now you're advocating that it loses even this. On top of this, you don't even know that Misery already does what your saying for it to do and is still a DPS loss because Misery is only equivalent to 3 Glare casts, despite needing a total of 4 GCDs to even cast. Finally, you chastise my suggestion of adding 2 Afflatus skills and yet suggest adding 2 more buttons yourself.

If this isn't a troll attempt then its just flat out terrible because it fixes nothing that is currently facing WHM.

[inhaledcorn]

Ok, I'm just going to chalk this up as a troll now.

The only reason to bring a WHM currently in end game is for the safety net it provides in preventing wipes due to its ability to effortlessly cast rez without issue and now you're advocating that it loses even this. On top of this, you don't even know that Misery already does what your saying for it to do and is still a DPS loss because Misery is only equivalent to 3 Glare casts, despite needing a total of 4 GCDs to even cast. Finally, you chastise my suggestion of adding 2 Afflatus skills and yet suggest adding 2 more buttons yourself.

If this isn't a troll attempt then its just flat out terrible because it fixes nothing that is currently facing WHM.

Whoa, just because you don't like the suggestions does not mean I am a troll. That is extremely disingenuous of you. I'm trying to engage in conversation with you, it is not fair for you to shut me down like this.

WHM being the "prog healer" is something set by the community, not the developers. They likely disliked how WHM is being played by the community, especially since, after prog is done, people generally switch to AST. The change to Thin Air fundamentally changes how WHM is going to operate now, probably closer to how the developers want it to be played. On top of that, they likely disliked how WHM could Raise continuously when MP basically exists as a Raise gatekeep now, especially since the other healers had to eat the Raise MP penalty. This does overall hurt progression groups, but this does, hopefully, make WHM more attractive even speedruns.

Additionally, I've been reading the problems other WHMs have said about their kit, and I trust their word on it more than mine since my knowledge on WHM is more surface level than anything. From what I've heard from them WHM:

lack oGCD healing (since Assize isn't really being used for healing)

Misery isn't DPS neutral (even if my suggestion doesn't make it DPS neutral, just making it equal to 4 casts fixes that, too), and Lilies are generally being unused except during downtime.

lack of weave windows (which has been addressed)

lack of DPS options

WHM is going to change how it's played and used. My suggestions refocuses on WHM's very powerful GCD options while not making them bad to use, on top of giving more DPS and oGCD healing. I'm trying to focus WHM's playstyle identity as the "Black Mage of healers". While I did add buttons, which I admitted to in my initial post, by the way, it was only done in an attempt to address some of the problems that face WHM going into Endwalker. Your suggestions add to the button bloat without addressing anything else WHMs have been complaining about.

[Silver-Strider]

Snip

The problem is that, with the nerf to Thin Air, there isn't a reason to bring a WHM in EW. AST will now have the superior MP management between the 2, even more so with the inclusion of Astrodyne, it already offers more rDPS than WHMs aDPS can match, it has oGCD heals that are available mostly on 40-45 second intervals meaning a health rotation of healing options are almost always available to it when need be, Neutral Sect grants it Shielding capabilities when needed and Macrocosmos is a DPS neutral GCD skill with a powerful heal comparable to Lilybell but is much more flexible.

The lack of oGCD healing is a problem for WHM but its clear that SE wants WHM to remain a GCD focused job, hence why I suggest expanding on the Lily System, which would not only resolve the issue of Misery not being DPS Neutral but also addresses the issue of Lilies being unused. However, there's no way to resolve this issue without creating more Button Bloat, which you yourself also demonstrated. Since Misery requires 3 Lilies to be used to activate, adding in Reminiscence and Tenacity that utilize 2 Lilies will reduces the requirements to activate Misery, so that the current DPS loss of using Misery is much less severe to a point its practically non existent so utilizing Lilies over Glare is a non-issue. Not only that but because they're free, it helps alleviate some of the MP burden WHM has considering that Medica 2 and Cure 3 are the most MP heavy skills in their toolkit.

A lack of DPS options is something all healers are facing really and I do lightly touch up on this by asking for an AoE DoT to be returned. It wouldn't solve the issue but its something at least.

I'm fine with changing WHM but EW hasn't done that other than nerfing it to be inferior AST.

[inhaledcorn]

The problem is that, with the nerf to Thin Air, there isn't a reason to bring a WHM in EW. AST will now have the superior MP management between the 2, even more so with the inclusion of Astrodyne, it already offers more rDPS than WHMs aDPS can match, it has oGCD heals that are available mostly on 40-45 second intervals meaning a health rotation of healing options are almost always available to it when need be, Neutral Sect grants it Shielding capabilities when needed and Macrocosmos is a DPS neutral GCD skill with a powerful heal comparable to Lilybell but is much more flexible.

The lack of oGCD healing is a problem for WHM but its clear that SE wants WHM to remain a GCD focused job, hence why I suggest expanding on the Lily System, which would not only resolve the issue of Misery not being DPS Neutral but also addresses the issue of Lilies being unused. However, there's no way to resolve this issue without creating more Button Bloat, which you yourself also demonstrated. Since Misery requires 3 Lilies to be used to activate, adding in Reminiscence and Tenacity that utilize 2 Lilies will reduces the requirements to activate Misery, so that the current DPS loss of using Misery is much less severe to a point its practically non existent so utilizing Lilies over Glare is a non-issue. Not only that but because they're free, it helps alleviate some of the MP burden WHM has considering that Medica 2 and Cure 3 are the most MP heavy skills in their toolkit.

A lack of DPS options is something all healers are facing really and I do lightly touch up on this by asking for an AoE DoT to be returned. It wouldn't solve the issue but its something at least.

I'm fine with changing WHM but EW hasn't done that other than nerfing it to be inferior AST.

AST is going to be in a terrible place come EW because the DPS it can add is horribly inconsistent. Astrodyne needing three different seals, and AST losing a lot of the ways it can guarantee those three seals will mean Astrodyne is something it can't rely on for damage. On top of that, Lord is also a part of its damage it can't guarantee. Lightspeed is basically going to be used exclusively with Astrodyne instead of high movement phases like it can use it currently, so it can't get fast raises. AST's mp economy was also nerfed as Draw only gains 500 mp now.

Thin Air, as it will exist going into EW, will basically be constantly held at 1 charge to be used basically on Glare and maybe 1 Raise in prog and Medica II in farm. This doesn't expand WHM's gameplay in any way, and your suggestions keep trying to pigeonhole it into this "prog healer" mentality. That, by design, keeps it from being competitive with AST, so your desire for a competitively viable WHM goes against your very design philosophy.