Missing Elemental Summons

[Sequora]

The simplest reason lore wise why we will never get a Shiva summon is that we do not dare summon even a copy of her and it get back to Hraesvelgr. He has already made it clear that he was not happy with Ysayle and he trusts us to honor her memory.

I’m not disagreeing with you, but the writers could find a way to make it work.

[Burningskull]

they should include them
but as Reskins of Aether flow moves we have already becuase Aetherflow sticks out like a sore thumb now

fester > Judgement bolt
painflare > Diamond dust
etc etc

What if... and hear me out... they make Fester > Judgement Bolt. Painflare > Tidal Wave, and after you go through 1 Bahamut and 1 Pheonix you become Shiva and get to do a couple of really cool spells and end with Diamund Dust?

[Rika007]

What if... and hear me out... they make Fester > Judgement Bolt. Painflare > Tidal Wave, and after you go through 1 Bahamut and 1 Pheonix you become Shiva and get to do a couple of really cool spells and end with Diamund Dust?

Now I'm the last person to let lore get too much in the way of a cool idea, but I think they might shut that down. Although the idea of the look on Ryne's face after coming back to see us again later on and then seeing us go Shiva after specifically telling her its a bad idea to do so is honestly absolutely hilarious.

[Payadopa]

This is the first time since the start of 2.0 that I'm considering to main SMN and that's saying something. I hope we get more in the future but so far SMN looks amazing.

[Burningskull]

Now I'm the last person to let lore get too much in the way of a cool idea, but I think they might shut that down. Although the idea of the look on Ryne's face after coming back to see us again later on and then seeing us go Shiva after specifically telling her its a bad idea to do so is honestly absolutely hilarious.

What's even funnier is that the only thing our character would probably reply with is just looking at Ryne and then shrugging their shoulders lol.

[Roda]

The simplest reason lore wise why we will never get a Shiva summon is that we do not dare summon even a copy of her and it get back to Hraesvelgr. He has already made it clear that he was not happy with Ysayle and he trusts us to honor her memory.

I whip out phoenix in trusts with alisae all the time.
And bahamut in Paglth'an.

I have yet to receive any consequences for this.

[MercuryD]

The simplest reason lore wise why we will never get a Shiva summon is that we do not dare summon even a copy of her and it get back to Hraesvelgr. He has already made it clear that he was not happy with Ysayle and he trusts us to honor her memory.

This isn't the issue you think it is. What Hraesvelgr was against was Ysayle acting like she was HIS Shiva as she believed that she was her, reincarnated. Shiva the primal, on the other hand, is just a creation of Ysayle's. The primal is no more the original Shiva as Garuda is the original Garuda or King Moggle Mog is Moglin.

[WlyemR]

I whip out phoenix in trusts with alisae all the time.
And bahamut in Paglth'an.

I have yet to receive any consequences for this.

About Phoenix, the twins loved their grandfather a lot. Seeing him as Phoenix, a thrall of Bahamut, was obviously painful. But, seeing him as Phoenix, defender of Eorzea, would be a point of pride for them. I would argue the same of Bahamut as well. Originally, he was a protector of his people against the Allagans, so we honor his memory by using him for a force of good.

This isn't the issue you think it is. What Hraesvelgr was against was Ysayle acting like she was HIS Shiva as she believed that she was her, reincarnated. Shiva the primal, on the other hand, is just a creation of Ysayle's. The primal is no more the original Shiva as Garuda is the original Garuda or King Moggle Mog is Moglin.

That brings up a good point, the only time we have faced Shiva is through body possession. Our perception would always be colored by that experience. So would we summon Ysayle as Shiva, Rynn as Shiva, or some version we make up in our heads? As Summoners, we focus on using primal essence in our summons. But before Shiva, we don't have any evidence of an ice-based primal in story or legend. on the other hand, like I said about Phoenix, we could summon Shiva as a means to honor the memory of Ysayle, still fighting to prtect Hydaelyn.

[MercuryD]

About Phoenix, the twins loved their grandfather a lot. Seeing him as Phoenix, a thrall of Bahamut, was obviously painful. But, seeing him as Phoenix, defender of Eorzea, would be a point of pride for them. I would argue the same of Bahamut as well. Originally, he was a protector of his people against the Allagans, so we honor his memory by using him for a force of good.

I mean, Oda-san outright stated that maybe you shouldn't try summoning Phoenix around the twins or Bahamut around Tiamat or they would be hurt and upset, lore-wise. That it would be cruel to do so knowing the pain they'd feel.

[Leidolf]

SMN plays more like Evoker from the earlier games, with two varieties depending on the Summoning. That being said, I do think they could squeeze in Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva next expansion and so the flow goes Ifrit > Titan > Garuda > Bahamut > Ramuh > Leviathan > Shiva > Phoenix > Ifrit