Combat Mentors - From the view of newish player

[Reinha]

There it is again. Mentors who give advice are apparently spoiling fights and ruining the joy of exploration for new players. But when they don't tell mechanics before the pull, they are bad mentors.

Which is it?

[weebtext]

There it is again. Mentors who give advice are apparently spoiling fights and ruining the joy of exploration for new players. But when they don't tell mechanics before the pull, they are bad mentors.

Which is it?

Both, at the same time. I can only assume people want mentors to be perfect robots with every single fight ready to be explained at a moments notice.

[SturmChurro]

There it is again. Mentors who give advice are apparently spoiling fights and ruining the joy of exploration for new players. But when they don't tell mechanics before the pull, they are bad mentors.

Which is it?

People should see a mentor and be encouraged to ask. That's what the crown is for. Simple as that. It's literally why there are different types of crown... It's not some veteran reward.

You know what? I've gotta add..

Anyway, the mentor system is great but people have too high expectations of what mentors are there for. Basically queue fillers and "ask me so you don't have to ask google."
Try not to put them on a pedestal and you won't be disappointed with the results.

Yeah, then the mentor system is basically worthless. It needs to be removed. There is no reason for there to be mentors, or mentor types, for that matter, if a battle mentor can just say "google it". The system is literally worthless at that point. If players can't be bothered to be an actual mentor after signing up to become one, then they should remove themself from the system, in my opinion. Like, seriously. It's absolutely ridiculous. We should be united in the removal of this system! It's a great idea on paper.. yeah.. in a perfect world it is, it really is. Let's all be real here though, this isn't some utopia. It's unnecessary, and doesn't work.

Novice Network is ridiculous, and I don't care if there are some "good mentors", there aren't enough to make the system worth it. If someone needs a chat channel for questions, they shouldn't need to be a mentor to use it and answer them, but of course we need the biased "moderation" of the novice network mentor kick wars, otherwise an actual novice channel wouldn't work. Yeah, yeah, I can already see the arguments. But wait.. if mentors just refer sprouts to google or YouTube, then why the heck do we even need a novice network for players to answer questions? Just get rid of it. All of it.

[Canadane]

Yeah, then the mentor system is basically worthless. It needs to be removed. There is no reason for there to be mentors, or mentor types, for that matter, if a battle mentor can just say "google it". The system is literally worthless at that point. If players can't be bothered to be an actual mentor after signing up to become one, then they should remove themself from the system, in my opinion. Like, seriously. It's absolutely ridiculous. We should be united in the removal of this system! It's a great idea on paper.. yeah.. in a perfect world it is, it really is. Let's all be real here though, this isn't some utopia. It's unnecessary, and doesn't work.

Novice Network is ridiculous, and I don't care if there are some "good mentors", there aren't enough to make the system worth it. If someone needs a chat channel for questions, they shouldn't need to be a mentor to use it and answer them, but of course we need the biased "moderation" of the novice network mentor kick wars, otherwise an actual novice channel wouldn't work. Yeah, yeah, I can already see the arguments. But wait.. if mentors just refer sprouts to google or YouTube, then why the heck do we even need a novice network for players to answer questions? Just get rid of it. All of it.

Actually, googing for answers on an MMO game can very often lead to outdated information.
There are a few good sites that keep things up to date, even SE has a quest and item database for us in the play guide! But if someone doesn't know, they very well could be seeing information posted patches ago, if not from previous expansions.
Youtube's even worse as it's harder to update misinformation, and the "big names" there always try to rush out information on day 0 because it means they can make the most money. I'm still correcting people now and then on ocean fishing mechanics...

So I think having a place to ask experienced players a question is a good thing.
I dunno what Excalibur is like but there's very few bad eggs on Hyperion. At least now. Though too many people use it as a social crutch and even prevent themeslves from getting to ShB because they wanna keep in touch, which I think is a gross misuse of the chats purpose. But hey whatever I don't make the rules.

[SturmChurro]

Actually, googing for answers on an MMO game can very often lead to outdated information.
There are a few good sites that keep things up to date, even SE has a quest and item database for us in the play guide! But if someone doesn't know, they very well could be seeing information posted patches ago, if not from previous expansions.
Youtube's even worse as it's harder to update misinformation, and the "big names" there always try to rush out information on day 0 because it means they can make the most money. I'm still correcting people now and then on ocean fishing mechanics...

So I think having a place to ask experienced players a question is a good thing.
I dunno what Excalibur is like but there's very few bad eggs on Hyperion. At least now. Though too many people use it as a social crutch and even prevent themeslves from getting to ShB because they wanna keep in touch, which I think is a gross misuse of the chats purpose. But hey whatever I don't make the rules.

Oh, I was just repeating the usual statement of like watching a guide or whatever many mentors routinely say, instead of being "obligated" to explain fights or whatever. Even so, I don't think that a mentor system is actually needed when any player can give the same information. Whether or not googled information is up to date or not, doesn't matter. "Experienced" players is relative, as I've seen many mentors give pretty, let's just say, bad info. As for Novice Network in it's current state, I have never even been on the Novice Network on Excalibur, and Hyperion was the server I started the game on, neither have I been on that one. I've only been on the Novice Network with my sprout alt, and that was an enlightening experience.

[Eien713]

Oh, I was just repeating the usual statement of like watching a guide or whatever many mentors routinely say, instead of being "obligated" to explain fights or whatever.

Googling something is a legit advice. I personally dislike people who don't make an effort themselves and always rely on stuff being handed to them on a silver platter (especially for simple things). All necessary info is out there; you just have to seek it. And if your efforts don't yield results, then asking another person is fair because you've at least done your part. Mentors don't always know everything, and they probably sometimes have to google the answer themselves to give it to others, so why don't said others google it themselves first?

Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking people to watch a guide. I don't understand what you don't get about something visual being way better than simple words or what you have against this particular advice. If people aren't good enough to pick up on mechanics on their own, then watching the fight via a video is the next best thing. Besides, some stuff in later fights is too complicated to explain clearly via text.

[LittleImp]

Googling something is a legit advice. I personally dislike people who don't make an effort themselves and always rely on stuff being handed to them on a silver platter (especially for simple things). All necessary info is out there; you just have to seek it. And if your efforts don't yield results, then asking another person is fair because you've at least done your part. Mentors don't always know everything, and they probably sometimes have to google the answer themselves to give it to others, so why don't said others google it themselves first?

This game has atrocious online resources compared to other popular games. The only thing that's adequately covered anywhere is crafting, everything else is outdated garbage. You want to learn something about a specific job? Hope you're ready to sign up for an account on a third party platform, join a chat channel and figure out how to self assign yourself the right role. Navigating the online resources for this game is a learned skill in and of itself. A lot of people also prefer human interaction as a way of obtaining information; If there are people willing to answer their questions (which in my experience, there always are) it's not worth complaining about.

Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking people to watch a guide. I don't understand what you don't get about something visual being way better than simple words or what you have against this particular advice. If people aren't good enough to pick up on mechanics on their own, then watching the fight via a video is the next best thing. Besides, some stuff in later fights is too complicated to explain clearly via text.

Normal modes? No guide necessary.
ARR EX's? No guide necessary.
Current PF content? Watch a guide unless it came out yesterday.

[Eien713]

This game has atrocious online resources compared to other popular games. The only thing that's adequately covered anywhere is crafting, everything else is outdated garbage. You want to learn something about a specific job? Hope you're ready to sign up for an account on a third party platform, join a chat channel and figure out how to self assign yourself the right role. Navigating the online resources for this game is a learned skill in and of itself. A lot of people also prefer human interaction as a way of obtaining information; If there are people willing to answer their questions (which in my experience, there always are) it's not worth complaining about.

But then how did other people, mentors included, come to learn their jobs? Not everyone is theorycrafting in the game, so I'm sure the proper info is out there. And if someone directs you to a guide, then you check it out instead of relying on people to "teach" you your job. Also, on YouTube, I'm pretty sure there are videos about the different classes, and they usually mention the patch said guide applies to (same for written guides). The guides are usually properly updated too.

ARR EX's? No guide necessary.

You'd be surprised, then, at how these simple trials go in DF.

[RobynDaBank]

There it is again. Mentors who give advice are apparently spoiling fights and ruining the joy of exploration for new players. But when they don't tell mechanics before the pull, they are bad mentors.

Which is it?

People with differing opinions! /shrug