Combat Mentors - From the view of newish player

[nebby00]

Been playing for over a year and
a half now. I've had more sass, insults and general b.s. come from new players/sprouts than mentors. Not sure where everyone keeps finding these garbage can mentors but either I'm extremely lucky or there are less than people make it out to be.

Again, it depends heavily on data center how bad the mentors are gonna be on which data center. In NA data centers, you have quite a few bad ones. Enough to be noticeable, but not enough to completely make up the vast majority. They're a vocal minority that is obnoxious when they do show up in game. I suppose it also depends on the culture too with it being slightly different depending on NA or EU, but just because you don't see it, doesn't mean that they don't exist. They do exist and they do cause problems when they show up with their bad attitudes or see the people that they don't like. Kick wars in NN, or anything of the sort, drama in NN or immediate bailing on EX before any sprout can even say a single word (it has happened too many times, and I had to be the one to explain, we cleared every single time). But regardless, they do exist. There may not be a lot on your data center though if you haven't run into a lot of bad mentors.

[Bsrking5]

With a bit of knowledge of Sociology. People tend to favor remember the most impactful few over the general majority. I highly doubt "every time I've met a CM it's been a negative experience" is even remotely is true. So a lot is like 5 out of 1,000 mentors you probably came across in some fashion and like 56 out 10,000 regular players.

Mentors are players and the vast major of players have had a neutral to slightly positive experience with me and mentors have followed suit. Saying your new is different then asking for the mechanics explained. Its far greater experience to learn and improve on your own rather than have everything explained, you will retain the information better also.

Odin shouldn't really need to be explained, its just one of the more healing involved fights from ARR. One hard tank buster, aoes to dodge, aoes that give the slow debuff, room wide aoe that has a dot, 4 adds to kill to end a room wide aoe and a fairly easy dps check at the end, thats the whole fight. The only common thing is slow getting on healers and dps out ranging healers aoe heals.

Complaining that you had to use all of defensive skills as a tank to me just means the healer kept you alive but also did the maximum dps to speed the run up. If you don't die, whats the problem? Keeping the tank topped off is a waste of time, the goal should keeping the tank alive and doing the most dps.

Mentors only free "goodies" for getting it is joining the novice network and the tag next to you name, which really isn't all that impressive or important. Those mentors you have very small chance of getting as most combat mentors are going for the 2,000 mentor roulette completion mount.

[Canadane]

Yeah, then the mentor system is basically worthless. It needs to be removed. There is no reason for there to be mentors, or mentor types, for that matter, if a battle mentor can just say "google it". The system is literally worthless at that point. If players can't be bothered to be an actual mentor after signing up to become one, then they should remove themself from the system, in my opinion. Like, seriously. It's absolutely ridiculous. We should be united in the removal of this system! It's a great idea on paper.. yeah.. in a perfect world it is, it really is. Let's all be real here though, this isn't some utopia. It's unnecessary, and doesn't work.

Novice Network is ridiculous, and I don't care if there are some "good mentors", there aren't enough to make the system worth it. If someone needs a chat channel for questions, they shouldn't need to be a mentor to use it and answer them, but of course we need the biased "moderation" of the novice network mentor kick wars, otherwise an actual novice channel wouldn't work. Yeah, yeah, I can already see the arguments. But wait.. if mentors just refer sprouts to google or YouTube, then why the heck do we even need a novice network for players to answer questions? Just get rid of it. All of it.

Actually, googing for answers on an MMO game can very often lead to outdated information.
There are a few good sites that keep things up to date, even SE has a quest and item database for us in the play guide! But if someone doesn't know, they very well could be seeing information posted patches ago, if not from previous expansions.
Youtube's even worse as it's harder to update misinformation, and the "big names" there always try to rush out information on day 0 because it means they can make the most money. I'm still correcting people now and then on ocean fishing mechanics...

So I think having a place to ask experienced players a question is a good thing.
I dunno what Excalibur is like but there's very few bad eggs on Hyperion. At least now. Though too many people use it as a social crutch and even prevent themeslves from getting to ShB because they wanna keep in touch, which I think is a gross misuse of the chats purpose. But hey whatever I don't make the rules.

[SturmChurro]

Actually, googing for answers on an MMO game can very often lead to outdated information.
There are a few good sites that keep things up to date, even SE has a quest and item database for us in the play guide! But if someone doesn't know, they very well could be seeing information posted patches ago, if not from previous expansions.
Youtube's even worse as it's harder to update misinformation, and the "big names" there always try to rush out information on day 0 because it means they can make the most money. I'm still correcting people now and then on ocean fishing mechanics...

So I think having a place to ask experienced players a question is a good thing.
I dunno what Excalibur is like but there's very few bad eggs on Hyperion. At least now. Though too many people use it as a social crutch and even prevent themeslves from getting to ShB because they wanna keep in touch, which I think is a gross misuse of the chats purpose. But hey whatever I don't make the rules.

Oh, I was just repeating the usual statement of like watching a guide or whatever many mentors routinely say, instead of being "obligated" to explain fights or whatever. Even so, I don't think that a mentor system is actually needed when any player can give the same information. Whether or not googled information is up to date or not, doesn't matter. "Experienced" players is relative, as I've seen many mentors give pretty, let's just say, bad info. As for Novice Network in it's current state, I have never even been on the Novice Network on Excalibur, and Hyperion was the server I started the game on, neither have I been on that one. I've only been on the Novice Network with my sprout alt, and that was an enlightening experience.

[Eien713]

Oh, I was just repeating the usual statement of like watching a guide or whatever many mentors routinely say, instead of being "obligated" to explain fights or whatever.

Googling something is a legit advice. I personally dislike people who don't make an effort themselves and always rely on stuff being handed to them on a silver platter (especially for simple things). All necessary info is out there; you just have to seek it. And if your efforts don't yield results, then asking another person is fair because you've at least done your part. Mentors don't always know everything, and they probably sometimes have to google the answer themselves to give it to others, so why don't said others google it themselves first?

Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking people to watch a guide. I don't understand what you don't get about something visual being way better than simple words or what you have against this particular advice. If people aren't good enough to pick up on mechanics on their own, then watching the fight via a video is the next best thing. Besides, some stuff in later fights is too complicated to explain clearly via text.

[LittleImp]

Googling something is a legit advice. I personally dislike people who don't make an effort themselves and always rely on stuff being handed to them on a silver platter (especially for simple things). All necessary info is out there; you just have to seek it. And if your efforts don't yield results, then asking another person is fair because you've at least done your part. Mentors don't always know everything, and they probably sometimes have to google the answer themselves to give it to others, so why don't said others google it themselves first?

This game has atrocious online resources compared to other popular games. The only thing that's adequately covered anywhere is crafting, everything else is outdated garbage. You want to learn something about a specific job? Hope you're ready to sign up for an account on a third party platform, join a chat channel and figure out how to self assign yourself the right role. Navigating the online resources for this game is a learned skill in and of itself. A lot of people also prefer human interaction as a way of obtaining information; If there are people willing to answer their questions (which in my experience, there always are) it's not worth complaining about.

Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with asking people to watch a guide. I don't understand what you don't get about something visual being way better than simple words or what you have against this particular advice. If people aren't good enough to pick up on mechanics on their own, then watching the fight via a video is the next best thing. Besides, some stuff in later fights is too complicated to explain clearly via text.

Normal modes? No guide necessary.
ARR EX's? No guide necessary.
Current PF content? Watch a guide unless it came out yesterday.

[Eien713]

This game has atrocious online resources compared to other popular games. The only thing that's adequately covered anywhere is crafting, everything else is outdated garbage. You want to learn something about a specific job? Hope you're ready to sign up for an account on a third party platform, join a chat channel and figure out how to self assign yourself the right role. Navigating the online resources for this game is a learned skill in and of itself. A lot of people also prefer human interaction as a way of obtaining information; If there are people willing to answer their questions (which in my experience, there always are) it's not worth complaining about.

But then how did other people, mentors included, come to learn their jobs? Not everyone is theorycrafting in the game, so I'm sure the proper info is out there. And if someone directs you to a guide, then you check it out instead of relying on people to "teach" you your job. Also, on YouTube, I'm pretty sure there are videos about the different classes, and they usually mention the patch said guide applies to (same for written guides). The guides are usually properly updated too.

ARR EX's? No guide necessary.

You'd be surprised, then, at how these simple trials go in DF.

[LittleImp]

But then how did other people, mentors included, come to learn their jobs? Not everyone is theorycrafting in the game, so I'm sure the proper info is out there. And if someone directs you to a guide, then you check it out instead of relying on people to "teach" you your job. Also, on YouTube, I'm pretty sure there are videos about the different classes, and they usually mention the patch said guide applies to (same for written guides).

Telling someone to google an answer and directly linking them to a guide are completely different things.

Most of the nuance I've picked up around my job actually came from other players willingness to answer my questions, mentor me and directly provide me explicitly relevant resources. I googled a flowchart one time for my job, and later found out it wasn't even correct. My entire trajectory on this game has been shaped by people who were willing to stop and give me some of their time. I myself became a mentor because of a specific encounter in which a tank who had cleared the tier week 1 joined my party, got in my discord and walked us through the entirety of a difficult fight while being super friendly, for no other reason than he had time to kill and wanted to help someone else out. The social impact of someone extending their hand and showing a willingness to help without expecting anything in return can't be understated. Telling someone to 'google it' is a cold dismissal.

You'd be surprised, then, at how these simple trials go in DF.

I've done ~1500 mentor roulettes and clear ARR EX's 9/10 times. I have two other close friends on the same grind, and they have the exact same results. Crystal must be the god tier datacenter for pugging ARR EX's or something.

[Eien713]

Telling someone to google an answer and directly linking them to a guide are completely different things.

Most of the nuance I've picked up around my job actually came from other players willingness to answer my questions, mentor me and directly provide me explicitly relevant resources. I googled a flowchart one time for my job, and later found out it wasn't even correct. My entire trajectory on this game has been shaped by people who were willing to stop and give me some of their time. I myself became a mentor because of a specific encounter in which a tank who had cleared the tier week 1 joined my party, got in my discord and walked us through the entirety of a difficult fight while being super friendly, for no other reason than he had time to kill and wanted to help someone else out. The social impact of someone extending their hand and showing a willingness to help without expecting anything in return can't be understated. Telling someone to 'google it' is a cold dismissal.

I guess it's a matter of point of view. I personally always try to make an effort before going to another person for help. As for people giving advice, to me, it depends. I've seen people dismiss advice or lash out for getting it if it's unsolicited advice even though they actually need it. I don't mind people asking for help when something is truly obscure or they can't wrap their head around it, but if it's something that's as easy as a google query, I don't see the harm in making the effort yourself. Also, walking people through a fight and everyone making an effort to clear is different from trying to explain stuff to people who can't seem to follow instructions or who don't even speak the language you're trying to explain in. And joining a Discord and explaining stuff through VC is also totally different from typing walls of text and being unsure if people are even reading and/or understanding what you've written. After all, in VC, you have the luxury of doing callouts on the fly without having to throw away your controller (if you play on console like me) to type on the keyboard and risk dying in the process.

I should probably mention that I've never told a person to google something myself, but I have asked people to look up guides before diving into Ex trials. I have also never ever come across a mentor who told people to use google.

I've done ~1500 mentor roulettes and clear ARR EX's 9/10 times. I have two other close friends on the same grind, and they have the exact same results. Crystal must be the god tier datacenter for pugging ARR EX's or something.

If you go as a healer, you can salvage the run. Any other role can be pretty hopeless.

[Katie_Kitty]

I myself became a mentor because of a specific encounter in which a tank who had cleared the tier week 1 joined my party, got in my discord and walked us through the entirety of a difficult fight while being super friendly, for no other reason than he had time to kill and wanted to help someone else out.

Just wanna point out, this is not what mentors do. *some* mentors may do it, but not because they're mentors, instead it's because they're raiders. I'm not saying this is what you expect of mentors, but just to keep in mind - There are no mentors in savage. If you're in savage, then what you're doing is beyond the scope of the mentor system. Mentor system is for newbies and newbies are not in savage.