SE FINALLY ANSWERED THE HEALERS COMMUNITY LONG ANSWERED QUESTION

[Nizzi]

Sage really isn't that different, and I don't understand why SE is insisting that it's a different healer for people who want more interesting DPS on healers.

It seems as if they think people are complaining about having to stop DPSing to heal, or that people are saying that it's a pain to do both, because I really can't imagine anyone genuinely thinking that Sage is the solution to the problem that a lot of healers don't like about DPS downtime. It does have Phlegma as an oGCD DPS though, but it looks like it will be used the same way WHM uses Assize, except it has two charges and is 510 potency, so I supposed you could save it for movement if you desired and have it not be a DPS loss since it's 510 potency.
Regardless, that's all it's got in terms of DPS other than Toxicon (which is DPS neutral so ideally will be saved for movement it seems, unless I'm looking at this wrong and Toxicon is oGCD like Energy Drain), and it's not impressive in any way.

[Amaya-dono]

It seems as if they think people are complaining about having to stop DPSing to heal, or that people are saying that it's a pain to do both, because I really can't imagine anyone genuinely thinking that Sage is the solution to the problem that a lot of healers don't like about DPS downtime. It does have Phlegma as an oGCD DPS though, but it looks like it will be used the same way WHM uses Assize, except it has two charges and is 510 potency, so I supposed you could save it for movement if you desired and have it not be a DPS loss since it's 510 potency.
Regardless, that's all it's got in terms of DPS other than Toxicon (which is DPS neutral so ideally will be saved for movement it seems, unless I'm looking at this wrong and Toxicon is oGCD like Energy Drain), and it's not impressive in any way.

Just to clarify, Phlegma is a GCD! It'll still be used on CD for DPS since it's a gain, and I think whether it's a GCD or not doesn't change it from the other healers much. But yeah, I agree with the rest of your post completely. It feels like SE have a fundamental misunderstanding of what we're asking for if they think Sage is an answer to our requests.

[Nizzi]

Just to clarify, Phlegma is a GCD! It'll still be used on CD for DPS since it's a gain, and I think whether it's a GCD or not doesn't change it from the other healers much. But yeah, I agree with the rest of your post completely. It feels like SE have a fundamental misunderstanding of what we're asking for if they think Sage is an answer to our requests.

Dang, here I was thinking Phlegma was an oGCD, that's somehow even more disappointing! Thanks for clearing that up, I had been thinking that it was at least one oGCD damage skill, but somehow Scholar manages to beat the supposed "DPS healer" in that regard and it didn't even gain anything new DPS wise this expansion. My biggest worry now with Sage is that because of this misunderstanding I think they have in regards for what a lot of healers want; if Sage does poorly, they'll see it as an affirmation that their current healer design is working and what the majority of people want, and if Sage does well and loads of people flood to it, they'll believe they've fixed the problem and keep telling people who complain about other healers DPS downtime to "just go play Sage, that's the healer we designed for you!"

[Sani2341]

(which is DPS neutral so ideally will be saved for movement it seems, unless I'm looking at this wrong and Toxicon is oGCD like Energy Drain)

I might be wrong, but isn't Toxicon a hefty dps loss as it requires casting a gcd shield?

currently, outside of AoE situations, toxicon has the same potency as dosis, so it would appear dps neutral at first brush, but when you consider that addersting comes from a gcd shield breaking, it means you use 2 GCDs to get the same result as 1.

Which means that if my napkin math is not to far of, using toxicon is a dps loss compared to refreshing your DoT early for movement, as that would still end up with potency equal to dosis and a bit extra.

[BooPoo]

I might be wrong, but isn't Toxicon a hefty dps loss as it requires casting a gcd shield?

currently, outside of AoE situations, toxicon has the same potency as dosis, so it would appear dps neutral at first brush, but when you consider that addersting comes from a gcd shield breaking, it means you use 2 GCDs to get the same result as 1.

Which means that if my napkin math is not to far of, using toxicon is a dps loss compared to refreshing your DoT early for movement, as that would still end up with potency equal to dosis and a bit extra.

Instead of thinking it's a loss, toxicon is more like a make up mechanism for putting on shields, because we will be putting shields on people all the time.

[Sani2341]

Instead of thinking it's a loss, toxicon is more like a make up mechanism for putting on shields, because we will be putting shields on people all the time.

Really?
because I can count the times I put shields up on SCH this expansion on my two hands.
Granted I don't do savage, but if I need to play content I have no interest in, to enjoy the role (and class) I liked before ShB, I'd say that'S a good reason to assuem the design is bad.

[Sebazy]

Instead of thinking it's a loss, toxicon is more like a make up mechanism for putting on shields, because we will be putting shields on people all the time.

With a GCD? Ehhhh maybe if we see a return to bosses auto attacking with instant or at least quick casting tankbusters. But assuming Savage content stays inline with what we've generally seen ever since Creator. Not so much =/

Outside of Savage? It's about the least efficient use for a GCD in combat sadly =/

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Eukresian Diagnosis > Dosis III > Dosis III > Toxicon II
4 GCDs that puts out a total of 990p damage, 810p heal, & 540p shield.

Dosis III > Dosis III > Dosis III > Dosis III
4 GCDs that puts out a total of 1,320p damage & 680p heal.

Assuming encounter design remains the same & with SCH has always been avoiding clone GCD outside progging… I see even less reason for SGEs to try shielding. Addersting also only procs if the shield breaks.

Toxicon is poor man’s Afflatus Misery.

[Deceptus]

Eukresian Diagnosis > Dosis III > Dosis III > Toxicon II
4 GCDs that puts out a total of 990p damage, 810p heal, & 540p shield.

Dosis III > Dosis III > Dosis III > Dosis III
4 GCDs that puts out a total of 1,320p damage & 680p heal.

Assuming encounter design remains the same & with SCH has always been avoiding clone GCD outside progging… I see even less reason for SGEs to try shielding. Addersting also only procs if the shield breaks.

Toxicon is poor man’s Afflatus Misery.

Especially when you consider you'll have a partner to help with the healing load.

And if 2 sages are doing that . . .

[Pallero]

Instead of thinking it's a loss, toxicon is more like a make up mechanism for putting on shields, because we will be putting shields on people all the time.

The only phase in the entire game where i can think of this upcoming version of toxicon to matter is Nael in ucob. With bad enough rng and getting targeted by every dive and thunder imaginable, it's the only fight where i had kinda nothing real to do with WHMs instant repertoire because the previous gcd i already regened the mt and everyone's full already most of the time anyway. That's where every 2nd "regen" would be rewarded with a toxicon instead of re-aero for that 50 potency instant.
But even that is really just because misery is above the level cap. Toxicon at least is a spell available since the early levels.

For any other fight in the game, the vast majority of the cases, only way i see adders sting being used as is farming them prepull / on downtime whenever possible. But then again i don't really see why'd one bother that if 1,5 sec castbars on the nuke already pretty much enable all the mobility the game ever needed.
I have no idea why'd it only specify the single target shield. I hope they'll soon edit the tooltip of adder sting to also include the aoe spell, so that downtime preparation doesn't have to look like succor -> 3x addlo in preparation to get three stacks.

Hoping they'll at least add also Addersting to the "recitation" of sage, which in current iteration states nothing else than "gain 1 addersgall", that's it. Which doesn't state "in combat" yet btw, but i assume it will.