It's time to hire dedicated Tank an Healer devs!

[Jeeqbit]

Healers not having many DPS abilities is intentional because some healers like to just heal and SE wants to support their freedom to focus on healing. They don't want to pressure them into doing damage when that isn't the role they chose.

Tanks lacking some of the DPS complexity of a DPS is intentional because in raid content, tanks have a lot of things to focus on including boss positioning and repositioning, keeping space for DPS positionals, protecting the party with party mitigation, tank swaps and tank busters and a lot of tank-specific mechanics or non-tank mechanics that are dumped on the tanks so DPS don't have to do them. They are also doing a lot of the mechanics the rest of the party is doing.

I've played tanks for many years and tanks are currently in a really good place and I don't see the problem with them at all. They are really fun in raid content and really fun to do big pulls with in dungeons.

[Baxcel]

Healers not having many DPS abilities is intentional because some healers like to just heal and SE wants to support their freedom to focus on healing. They don't want to pressure them into doing damage when that isn't the role they chose.

Tanks lacking some of the DPS complexity of a DPS is intentional because in raid content, tanks have a lot of things to focus on including boss positioning and repositioning, keeping space for DPS positionals, protecting the party with party mitigation, tank swaps and tank busters and a lot of tank-specific mechanics or non-tank mechanics that are dumped on the tanks so DPS don't have to do them. They are also doing a lot of the mechanics the rest of the party is doing.

I've played tanks for many years and tanks are currently in a really good place and I don't see the problem with them at all. They are really fun in raid content and really fun to do big pulls with in dungeons.

Like I said there needs to be option for both types of players.. more damage buttons for those that enjoy that type of play.. because let's be honest. If they add more damage buttons for the people that want them, the healbots and glaremages will just keep spamming them, while the good players will use everything they have.. and that's what I mean by options for everyone.. the base flooring we have currently for tanks an healers is fine.. but they need to add in stuff for the high end players too.

As a tank that run extreme an savage content on the regular, no we don't have a lot to worry about. We press 1-2 mitigation buttons for a buster and 1 for a raidwide.. after that its 123 and then burst phase every so often..

I've also been tanking for multiple expansions myself, playing almost every day, doing dungeons, extreme and savages its not a good place currently its actually quiet boring because it's all made by dps devs who hate playing the classes.. tanks an healers are currently designed to stand there and do 1 think so the dps can do whatever they want and that's no fun for anyone. If tanking where fun and in a good place a huge pull in a dungeon should be scary or make you nervous.. it should make you pop all of your cooldowns.. currently we can pull to a wall, using 2 cooldowns and just spamming aoe.. healers over heal so much that it dosnt even matter.. because as I said.. theyre made currently to stand around an heal or eat damage.. it needs to be more for those who want more.

Edit: also look at the dark knight megathread or the scholar mega or any healer maga.. most players hate the current setup.

[ItMe]

Edit: also look at the dark knight megathread or the scholar mega or any healer maga.. most players hate the current setup.

Correction:
Many of the players that choose to weigh in on the forums hate the current set up.
"Most players" are silent on the issue and we cannot speak for them.

[kaynide]

Correction:
Many of the players that choose to weigh in on the forums hate the current set up.
"Most players" are silent on the issue and we cannot speak for them.

In other words, were the Devs to post, they would very likely write "Tanks/Healers- Working as Intended. Next question!"

[RyuDragnier]

Correction:
Many of the players that choose to weigh in on the forums hate the current set up.
"Most players" are silent on the issue and we cannot speak for them.

It seems to be a common sentiment though, judging from the various Discords, Linkshells, map chats I'm in. It seems to be almost unanimous that SCH and DRK got treated badly this time around, even the media sites going over the changes for all the classes have even mentioned that SCH and DRK have gotten the short end of the stick. They're the only 2 I'm seeing this many complaints about too, I'm not seeing nowhere near as much complaints for the others...and for those times I do, there's almost always a joke of "It could be worse, you could be a DRK/SCH!"

[Reiryuu]

It seems to be almost unanimous that SCH and DRK got treated badly this time around, even the media sites going over the changes for all the classes have even mentioned that SCH and DRK have gotten the short end of the stick. hey're the only 2 I'm seeing this many complaints about too, I'm not seeing nowhere near as much complaints for the others...and for those times I do, there's almost always a joke of "It could be worse, you could be a DRK/SCH!"

To be fair, they did get the worst of it, but WHM didn't fare much better. All of our spells are washed out colors or just white. Glare III looks almost exactly like Glare, so another 2 years of the same effect. Holy III is more white misery flower and Lilybell......... is just more overhealing for the master class of overhealing.

[ItMe]

It seems to be a common sentiment though, judging from the various Discords, Linkshells, map chats I'm in. It seems to be almost unanimous that SCH and DRK got treated badly this time around, even the media sites going over the changes for all the classes have even mentioned that SCH and DRK have gotten the short end of the stick. They're the only 2 I'm seeing this many complaints about too, I'm not seeing nowhere near as much complaints for the others...and for those times I do, there's almost always a joke of "It could be worse, you could be a DRK/SCH!"

It is worth noting however, that people happy with the design generally don't post about that.
We have very few threads being "DRK is great, keep it up guys," but that's not necessarily because there aren't people that feel that way. Content players are generally just... playing the game.
People that are unhappy go to community hubs like Discord, the Forums, Reddit, etc, and share their grievances, vent, and ask/spitball improvements. Then these places begin turning into echo chambers instead of fair representations of what the community things.

I, for one, really enjoy ShB DRK. I think it's my favorite version yet. But not only do I not post about that, I straight up try and avoid going into DRK threads because I don't wanna be dogpiled for the sin of enjoying something, and because so many gloomy, bitter, and angry posts get funneled to those places that it's difficult for me to read, let alone engage with them.

Same story with most of the healer threads around here too.

[StriderShinryu]

Edit: also look at the dark knight megathread or the scholar mega or any healer maga.. most players hate the current setup.

Not saying you're wrong or right but "most players" in this case is just "most players who decide to post in those specific threads on the forums" so I'm not sure that's a valid proof point. Even if every single person who uses the forums posted in support of those threads you'd have only a tiny fraction of the total players of the game accounted for.

That said, I do think you're right in that there should be options for both play preferences. Have a "complicated" pure healer and an "easy" pure healer. Have a "complicated" tank and an "easy" tank. Etc. Heck, this should even hold for DPS.

I guess the only real question is whether or not you'd be okay with the "easy" and "complicated" versions of the job being balanced equally. In other words, and to just make up numbers for easy comparison sake, say your 1 button DPS move for the "easy" healer when pressed 5 times did 1000 damage in 10 seconds. Would you be okay if the "complicated" healer had a proper 5 button DPS rotation that still just totalled up to 1000 damage in 10 seconds? Surely if all you want is a more complex play experience that required more thought and effort on your part this wouldn't be an issue.

[Reiryuu]

Not saying you're wrong or right but "most players" in this case is just "most players who decide to post in those specific threads on the forums" so I'm not sure that's a valid proof point. Even if every single person who uses the forums posted in support of those threads you'd have only a tiny fraction of the total players of the game accounted for.

That said, I do think you're right in that there should be options for both play preferences. Have a "complicated" pure healer and an "easy" pure healer. Have a "complicated" tank and an "easy" tank. Etc. Heck, this should even hold for DPS.

I guess the only real question is whether or not you'd be okay with the "easy" and "complicated" versions of the job being balanced equally. In other words, and to just make up numbers for easy comparison sake, say your 1 button DPS move for the "easy" healer when pressed 5 times did 1000 damage in 10 seconds. Would you be okay if the "complicated" healer had a proper 5 button DPS rotation that still just totalled up to 1000 damage in 10 seconds? Surely if all you want is a more complex play experience that required more thought and effort on your part this wouldn't be an issue.

It's not that we want complex dps rotations or that, it's the only real thing most people thought we actually had a shot at getting. Some sort of interesting interactions between abilities or interesting choices to make would make a lot of people just as happy, I feel. Or frankly, if we just had more unpredictable damage or unavoidable damage to heal more often so that we didn't have 3+ minutes of fight with no heals needed.

[Deveryn]

It's not that we want complex dps rotations or that, it's the only real thing most people thought we actually had a shot at getting. Some sort of interesting interactions between abilities or interesting choices to make would make a lot of people just as happy, I feel. Or frankly, if we just had more unpredictable damage or unavoidable damage to heal more often so that we didn't have 3+ minutes of fight with no heals needed.

Yoshi-P acknowledged this in one of the recent interviews (with MTQ), saying they're looking at giving healers more to heal through.