The questions I want EW to answer the most: WHY and HOW was the world sundered?

[Iscah]

Do you really think Hydaelyn's construction went straight from her berthing pool to fight Zodiark without opposition? It is very likely she first sundered individuals or their summons/creations, as they attacked her to stop her(as well as tempered more to her cause).

Yes I do think Hydaelyn was created and immediately latched onto Zodiark – not to fight him but to keep him in check, whatever that check was. She was designed as a counterbalance to his power, so why would she not be immediately applied to do that function?

My personal speculative take on it is that Zodiark was designed to be 100% of the will of the star; Hydaelyn was designed to be 50% and perceived Zodiark acting on his own programming as "overstepping his half". And reached a logical conclusion that her own creators had not conceived of her attempting, which was thinking that Zodiark had to be depowered to maintain the balance between the two of them.

[Vyrerus]

Yes I do think Hydaelyn was created and immediately latched onto Zodiark – not to fight him but to keep him in check, whatever that check was. She was designed as a counterbalance to his power, so why would she not be immediately applied to do that function?

My personal speculative take on it is that Zodiark was designed to be 100% of the will of the star; Hydaelyn was designed to be 50% and perceived Zodiark acting on his own programming as "overstepping his half". And reached a logical conclusion that her own creators had not conceived of her attempting, which was thinking that Zodiark had to be depowered to maintain the balance between the two of them.

But they did fight and were separate beings. We have ample evidence for that. She faced massive resistance in the form of the majority of Ancient society and the Convocation(and of course Zodiark himself).

I mean, I won't completely discount the idea that she could have been a split personality installed into Zodiark(or something like that). Like insert Peg: Venat into Slot: Heart, maybe it's even what pushed Elidibus out into his ever deteriorating primal form, but that doesn't sound any better to me(and makes less sense with what we've been given in SHB).

Also, she was less powerful than Zodiark from her inception, so enervation had to be at the forefront of her abilities. That is the first thing that came to mind when designing her. There couldn't possibly be parity between the two otherwise, and thus she could not restrict him. Like a police officer can't restrain a suspect without subduing them and cuffing them, requiring some sort of takedown technique or a taser.

[Cleretic]

She faced massive resistance in the form of the majority of Ancient society and the Convocation(and of course Zodiark himself).

Actually... we don't have that.

Remember that both our sources for this are in some way biased: Emet-Selch and the Convocation obviously wanted to do their thing, and so kept talking up that side, but it was all about necessity rather than public support. Meanwhile, Venat's crew do say that their support is 'few, far fewer than those who support Zodiark', but there's no indication of either group's relative size or proportion of the population. In fact, while I'm wary of digging into the semantics of the English script since I know that's subject to some artistic liberties, it actually sounds like neither have a whole lot of fervent support.

So it's not 'a vast majority of support vs. a small group of dissenters', it's 'thirteen members of government and an unclear amount of supporters versus an also-unclear but potentially smaller opposition group'. And in fact, without anything suggesting that Amaurot's government was democratically elected, we can't even assume that they have popular support. Remember, we never really see a lot of average Ancients; we only meet Emet's selective memories of those around the seat of government (so basically just the Amaurotian equivalent of the DC beltway), and then an opposition meeting in an impartial recording.

Incidentally, I counted, and there are exactly thirteen Ancients visible in the meeting in Anamnesis. So by pure headcount of 'confirmed support vs. confirmed oppose', without knowing any non-present believers on either side, they're in a dead heat, which feels deliberate. (And as someone who's attended political meetings in libraries, I can tell you, that would NOT be 100% of the group.)

[HiraishinNoJutsu]

Zodiark was formulated in a panic to solve a very weird problem, so it makes sense that it didn't work out perfectly. But Hydaelyn... Venat's crew had time, and clearly were composed of people that were pretty thoughtful.

I mean to be fair the convocation did also have time It can just be argued they used it poorly. The calamity of the unsundered world wasn't an immediate "Snap now were all dead" we know from “Debate and Discourse” that there was a large enough time for even the citizens of Amaurot to have lengthy discussions on the direction the world was heading. I previously made a post under the "Zodiark Good or Evil" thread but to sum it up is the fact that the situation was far too complex to binary define who was right and who was wrong. Amaurot had hours to spend but focused too much on their play book of parley that they went into overtime and Zodiark was the most realistic option to successfully save their people (To them of course)

Basically, Team Hydaelyn performed a Coup d'état. We don't even know every single member of the team's motivation for that, either. Sure, Venat was pure of heart and didn't want to speak ill of the Convocation and wanted harmony... but others were quick to call them fools, obviously of the mind that they were superior, at least in thought, to the Convocation. Who then, among them, was of the mind that Venat's sensibilities were not the way forward once Zodiark was under control.

Your question leads me back to something else I personally hope Endwalker answers. That being WHY did Venat HAVE to be Hydaelyn? She was basically the "CEO of Hydaelyn" so why give herself up instead of leading her group after Hydaelyn comes into existence? The quest "Beneath the surface" shows that one of her compatriots implores her to not sacrifice herself and instead choose one of them. She immediately shuts that down by saying.

Venat
"You know as well as I that but few support our cause. Far fewer than they who place their faith in Zodiark.
If Hydaelyn is to stand a chance of opposing Him, I am the only one who might suffice as Her heart."

Why was Venat so special? Why did it have to be her and no one else?

[KizuyaKatogami]

Maybe Zodiark himself asked Hydaelyn to sunder the star.
"Hey Hydaelyn, my followers keep wanting to sacrifice new life to bring back their friends, I suggest you sunder me and the star to put a stop to this"
"Cool, I'll do it"

They didn’t keep sacrificing life to bring back their friends lol. They sacrificed twice to save the world. The third set of sacrifices was to bring back their loved ones which didn’t go through.

[Lauront]

At this point, I'm very much expecting a third party entity to ultimately be to blame for the entire predicament. Potentially the very same entity that caused the Sound. The writers have, thankfully, been pretty clear at establishing the nuance of the situation. Neither Zodiark or Hydaelyn are necessarily 'good' or 'evil'. It's all very much a matter of perspective. So, too, does that apply to the Ancients and the Ascians, the Sundered and the Unsundered. They all have their own goals, dreams, desires and a will to live.

I also suspect that the Warrior of Light will go the way of Azem and seek to find a 'third way' when it comes to solving the plight that is the Sound. Especially if the Final Days are indeed returning for a second time in the same form as before. Or, alternatively, perhaps the story will involve Hydaelyn and Zodiark being brought together in a state of balance - given that the Sundering has been described as an 'unstable state' by the writers themselves in the past.

Whether Venat is an antagonist or not, I suppose, depends entirely on a few key factors such as whether the Sundering was accidental or intentional.

My own personal hope is for the story to set aside differences, acknowledge each side as having understandable motivations and then have everyone come together to beat the Sound which may or may not be a Lavos or Jenova type entity in typical JRPG fashion.

Pretty much my hopes as well. I think in her faction's case, well intentioned but perhaps misplaced concerns were exploited to create an opening for the crisis's originating source to reassert itself. I have a hunch that it used that as an opportunity to take over Zodiark, once weakened, and in this final battle will attempt to do the same again but not just to him. Stories verging on how more potent beings such as the ancients could only but be destroyed or "deserved" it or somesuch are unlikely to appeal much to me, particularly when races like dragons seem to elude such treatment. Not like we have to sunder the elder dragons because of the great power their eyes hold. If age old grievances could be put aside between man and these alien, and very potent beings, so too can reconciliation be achieved between unsundered and the sundered fragments of their race.

I mean to be fair the convocation did also have time It can just be argued they used it poorly. The calamity of the unsundered world wasn't an immediate "Snap now were all dead" we know from “Debate and Discourse” that there was a large enough time for even the citizens of Amaurot to have lengthy discussions on the direction the world was heading. I previously made a post under the "Zodiark Good or Evil" thread but to sum it up is the fact that the situation was far too complex to binary define who was right and who was wrong. Amaurot had hours to spend but focused too much on their play book of parley that they went into overtime and Zodiark was the most realistic option to successfully save their people (To them of course)

We know that they researched the origin of the crisis and sought means to address it. While one can speculate that their time was used poorly, it's not really confirmed one way or another, anywhere, to my knowledge. At the time it was occurring overseas, and already then they were devising a solution to it. The situation may well have ramped up at an exponential pace. Considering the unique nature of the crisis, they were probably taking a very cautious approach to how to resolve it, because it could exploit their very mental faculties and let their innate powers run amok once it had done so. It is very possible that the crisis, if manufactured, was made to look as natural and difficult to separate from natural phenomena as possible, and only to trigger at the right moment - certainly, the fact that Fandaniel can reproduce this crisis even without creation magicks being available to the sundered, should raise eyebrows.

Your question leads me back to something else I personally hope Endwalker answers. That being WHY did Venat HAVE to be Hydaelyn? She was basically the "CEO of Hydaelyn" so why give herself up instead of leading her group after Hydaelyn comes into existence? The quest "Beneath the surface" shows that one of her compatriots implores her to not sacrifice herself and instead choose one of them. She immediately shuts that down by saying.

Venat
"You know as well as I that but few support our cause. Far fewer than they who place their faith in Zodiark.
If Hydaelyn is to stand a chance of opposing Him, I am the only one who might suffice as Her heart."

Why was Venat so special? Why did it have to be her and no one else?

It's why I think they may be aiming for a Yunalesca reference with her - similar belief in her methods and an insistence that her champion adhere to them. As opposed to them doing something like turning her into an outright villain, which so far I do not see as plausible.

[Iscah]

They didn’t keep sacrificing life to bring back their friends lol. They sacrificed twice to save the world. The third set of sacrifices was to bring back their loved ones which didn’t go through.

Exactly, and that's a problem.

The first two groups of sacrifices went willingly so that other things would not die in their stead, and the world would thrive because of their actions.

If I'd done that and then found myself "back again" to learn that the things I'd sacrificed myself for had been sacrificed in turn to bring me back, undoing what I had given my life for, I don't think I'd be too impressed.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Exactly, and that's a problem.

The first two groups of sacrifices went willingly so that other things would not die in their stead, and the world would thrive because of their actions.

If I'd done that and then found myself "back again" to learn that the things I'd sacrificed myself for had been sacrificed in turn to bring me back, undoing what I had given my life for, I don't think I'd be too impressed.

That’s you though, not them. We don’t have their thoughts or perspectives at all but, i’d say that’s a much better outcome than the world being shattered and every single being living then being torn away and split from their friends and family, with their knowledge on the matter stripped away(implied purposely.)

[MikkoAkure]

Why was Venat so special? Why did it have to be her and no one else?

I'm sure we'll find out in Endwalker. I feel like for the past 2 years people have been making a lot of assumptions based on only half of the information.

[HiraishinNoJutsu]

It's why I think they may be aiming for a Yunalesca reference with her - similar belief in her methods and an insistence that her champion adhere to them. As opposed to them doing something like turning her into an outright villain, which so far I do not see as plausible.

That's pretty sound and something I agree with.

In my eyes one of the main messages across a lot of final fantasy games is that even if people have "good" or "morally sound" motivations in their eyes, the actions they take is what defines it. Your endgame can be the most seen as righteous whether its restoring a world you have lost, avenging a loved one, or wanting to bring world peace but when your balance is all out of wack and you start punishing the descendants of the perpetrators, try to rule with an iron fist or start committing mass genocide is when you are painted as "a villain".

My personal expectation that has been echoed throughout the forum but I hope comes to pass nonetheless is that Hydaelyn/Venat tried their best for the people and the world they loved. Just like parents in real life the mother crystal wasn't right 100 percent of the time and didn't keep it 100 percent honest with the WoL but she still shielded us from Ultima and she cares at least a little bit.

(Unless we learn that people piloting the hearts of the Oldest "primals" are conscious during the entire time and she deliberately sundered the world knowingly that would be kinda suspect)

I'm sure we'll find out in Endwalker. I feel like for the past 2 years people have been making a lot of assumptions based on only half of the information.

But also isn't that the fun of discussion? Even if were all completely off base just getting to chat with other people about a game we all love is fulfilling in itself!