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  1. #22
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,860
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai View Post
    Last.. other than that I agree with and could see Tornado Kick function in such a manner, I can also agree that the current function of Chakra resource is not a good one... But I would not remove it.
    I should briefly clarify. It's not that I don't want to see Chakra involved at all. I just think bonus potency from RNG, even if it were to have synergy with Crit rate (which has as many demerits as merits, sadly) isn't a "real" (or, worthwhile) mechanic. It has no unique function beyond an APM tax, potency siphoned from elsewhere to be made dependent on RNG, and anti-synergy with Meditation (which, btw, is itself a bit contradictory to Monk's theme of wanting perfect uptime). It doesn't even provide, say, the mobility of the old Ruin II/IV procs or Straighter Shot or Procced Slug/Clean back in the HW era of Bow Mage and Turret-Gunner.

    Now, an actual mechanic that has something to do with Chakra? Hell yeah. I'd love that. The only APM tax just isn't that, though, and so long as it fetters that thematic space, we can't have anything better.

    Now, there are some ideas for Chakra that would clearly subsume the mechanical space of stances or Greased Lightning. If you imagine a Chakra Gates mechanic styled off the likes of Rock Lee or Might Gai, that'd obviously going to tie into that idea of massive Gauge (or MP) expenditure. You manually trigger the start and increasing steps of a disgustingly strong burst phase, that will inevitably put you into the red, for as long as you possibly can such that you go dark the moment after a mob dies or jumps away to a long burst phase. Honestly, that sounds pretty appealing. There are just two issues:[LIST="1"]I had just already planned for that drain style through Internal Release and Fists of Wind, Earth, and Fire (each far more significant that the current effects, since they could no longer be maintained indefinitely), between the three of which I'd have far more options than Chakra's mere further GL levels. [*]And, moreover, I didn't really want to add the APM bloat of manual triggers on GL mechanics or limit maximization/exploitation of the aforementioned GL mechanics (e.g., in purposely spending such as to dip to certain levels or to exploit the safety period).

    That still leaves plenty of options, though. Off the cuff, I'd really love to see the Monk internalize the powers of Yin and Yang in mini-burst phases that would build up towards a larger culminating phase that could be rushed or banked deeper than what is, on average, "optimal", in keeping with that sort of available modularity/nuance I'd like to see from Monk. I just need it to do something that deserves that mechanic, and a mechanic that actually does the theme its due, rather than siphoning power away from more intuitive holders only to devalue more core mechanics in favor of wonky, problematic RNG-centric gameplay.

    A thought of interest... I chose to remove the damage increase from Greased Lightning stacks, because the sheer amount of damage potential lost, when Greased Lightning stacks are lost, was a common complaint and major issue that Monk players had with the Greased Lightning stacks, other than the duration issue; but I do like the idea of if Greased Lightning stacks were to also increase defense statistics and movement speed...
    I chose to keep them for a few reasons, but to be honest not all of them are immediately relevant:
    1. First, I like that it causes what few regularly-paced CDs one has (things previously like Steel Peak, Howling Fist, Elixir Field, and Shoulder Tackle) to affect your "free play". Essentially, when a oGCD is coming up in two GCDs, you can't then afford to dip below a threshold in this one without immediately recovering without losing that damage (and lowered recast time) bonus to it. That constrains play in a way that makes the flexibility more of a real mechanic. After all, if the flexibility only amounted to no possibility for punishment, it wouldn't be "flexible" so much as "irrelevant". Instead, GL as a gameplay-affecting mechanic should ask you to take risks, but to take them in a measured, deliberate fashion, aware of what's at risk. It should have significant cognitive load, especially over the rotational string or so leading into oGCDs.

    2. Thematically, I just really liked the idea of each stance having its set benefit -- every form of Speed, every form of Damage (though that's still really just damage), and every form of Defense (which, to be fair, doesn't amount to much when you're wearing leather armor to begin with).

    3. Finally, there's a matter of future-proofing.
    If I had my druthers, tanks would have significantly less passive mitigation and a bit less HP (siphoning their budget back into their active mitigation kit and a bit into their maximal offensive output). Adjusting for this would inadvertently again allow certain DPS to briefly snap-tank or off-tank.

    Let me illustrate somewhat. In that paradigm, the typical matchmade dungeon would remain typically faster with a tank than without, just due to the sheer added ease of play, but a coordinated premade could leverage the added damage to slightly outpace the norm even without a tank. It'd just take at least double (or more than triple, really, relative to the faceroll Expert roulette experience) the effort. In such a setting, I suspect Monk would be your most sustainable pseudo-tank. It'd have the least on-demand free mitigation when starting cold -- lacking the I-Frames of Dragoon's jumps, Reaper's and Ninja's self-shields, Samurai's added parry rate and Third Eye, or Maiming armor -- but it could blow oGCDs while within Fists of Earth to add Defense (fading linearly over time) at cost to potential damage, and at GL4 it'd slightly outmitigate Maiming gear. I liked that sense of wind-up and having to play around, as a group, both Monk's strengths and weaknesses or else tap into its hyperversatility at cost to its optimal output. It just seemed really fitting.

    Would we be correct to assume that the idea with that, is that all actions would have a Raptor, Coeurl, and Opo Opo form bonuses, and any action can lead into any other action, or activate its own form bonus, via a second/repeat use of the action?
    In the dynamic-keys approach (as opposed to the removal of form limitations), you'd essentially be choosing to maintain flow vs. exploiting a particular combo (typically only situationally, to align Demolish or the like, or at specific moments in macro-rotation). For instance, perhaps you'd gain Gauge only from weaponskills that shift form, but some of the more unique features would be limited to "combos" (using the same form twice or more). For instance, if there's a movement phase coming up, from Raptor you might choose to use the Raptor skill in order to ready, say, Falcon's Crest, a targeted dash-kick (random example is random), which in turn allows for Karmic Wheel, a linear AoE flip-kick that can ignore knockbacks while in midair (and hits pretty hard). As such, it'd cost you GL to pull off, but it'd be worth it due to uptime thereby afforded or in that you'd be opening a CD (e.g., Internal Release) with a strong AoE.

    After the "combo" is maxed out, it'd just turn back into the first Raptor->Raptor skill, which would absolutely not be worth wasting further GL on. This also gives an obvious lever for later additions to pull: get more levels, get longer available combos. And since those "combos" have to be used sparingly and always present at least 3 other options at any given time (or exponentially more pathways), they wouldn't just be the button bloat we're used to from Dragoon and the like.

    Personally, this is my favored route, over the no-form-restrictions one, since it's both more button-efficient and more reminiscent of a fighter/brawler-type game, which seems a reason association for the job to have.


    I am not certain what you mean in option C [the ability to spend Gauge to "rush" a cooldown]...
    Admittedly, that concept was pretty spitball, and if I were to use it, I'd want to constrain it a fair bit. As mentioned before, I like that certain offensive CDs constrain our rotation somewhat, giving us risk and reward for exploiting GL maximally.

    That said, the concept is fairly simple. You assign to each rushable CD a cost per second rushed (by which the CD is used despite its still being on cooldown). For instance, let's say I hit Howling Fist 6 seconds early so that it won't fall outside the Trick Attack window. Well, I'd pay as much gauge as is the cost of 6 seconds of Howling Fist. Each rushable CD would count down not just in seconds until its refresh, but in gauge cost to rush the remaining cooldown (centered, or opposite the normal cooldown, in a pale blue font).
    (2)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 10-03-2021 at 10:39 AM.