Dark Knight Megathread

[Baxcel]

Alo you saying "Btuchered and disjointed kit" but that's your opinion. I like current kit, I like abilities, I like DRK overall. I would only tweak abilities that he already has. I do not believe he needs any more serious rework.

I apologize for the bluntness but you don't like DRK.. you like WAR.. and that is sadly not what this class should be.. you've knows DRK for around 2 months or so and havnt even reached maxed level within the game..

DRK shouldn't be playing the way it currently plays it shouldn't be a carbon copy of the WAR class. It should play completely different from any other tank.. just as all the other tanks should play different then each other.

I played DRK during stormblood and even I barely say I have an opnion on what the job should be like.. because I liked StB and absolutely hate the ShB version

[Aword3213]

I apologize for the bluntness but you don't like DRK.. you like WAR.. and that is sadly not what this class should be.. you've knows DRK for around 2 months or so and havnt even reached maxed level within the game..

DRK shouldn't be playing the way it currently plays it shouldn't be a carbon copy of the WAR class. It should play completely different from any other tank.. just as all the other tanks should play different then each other.

I played DRK during stormblood and even I barely say I have an opnion on what the job should be like.. because I liked StB and absolutely hate the ShB version

To say DRK is a carbon copy of WAR is an overstatement, which should die if people want to make their complaint valid and reasonable. Complaints like these only make it more likely to be dismissed, especially when that complaints are based on seniority.

[ArianeEwah]

To say DRK is a carbon copy of WAR is an overstatement, which should die if people want to make their complaint valid and reasonable. Complaints like these only make it more likely to be dismissed, especially when that complaints are based on seniority.

Unfortunately, that "meme" can not die unless DRK and WAR are getting real unique designs!

Currently, we have Delirium as a inferior Inner Release, and this will not change in EW. On the contrary, for what we have seen in the job trailer, Delirium and IR are going to operate even MORE similar than before! SE confirmed that both will give 3 stacks of free beast and blood gauge weaponskills. At least today, IR negates the cost for Onslaught and Upheaval, yet that's going to be removed anyway. The only difference will be critDH for WAR and a tiny bit of MP for DRK.
Blood Weapon is also an inferior Infuriate with high risk thx to its low duration and sensitivity to high ping, which makes BW for many "offshore" peeps unrealiable. Infuritate is also on the charge system and gets its CD reduced after every beast gauge weaponskill. Blood Weapon's "unique" trait is its (up to) 3k MP you get from it for 1 Edge or Flood vs Infuriate's trait to overwrite Fell Cleave with Inner Chaos (and aoe counterpart).
In ShB, DRKs CDs are also more awkward than WAR, thx to its 60s BW burst + 90s Delirium, while WAR only has 90s Inner Release. Tho, this will soon be a thing of the past, as most CDs are going to be adjusted to 60s.

Blood Gauge in general is also similar - if not identical - to Beast Gauge. And as I said above, Onslaught and Upheaval are going to have their costs removed, so that statement is not far off. GCD gauge generation - while slightly different - is generated in the same matter and in 10 point steps. Compare that to other jobs or roles, there are plenty that generate 5 and/or 10 points for certain actions, but WAR and DRK are both limited to 10/20 pts.
Also soon to be homogenised: Onslaught on charges instead of gauge cost, 3 charges, very similar to Plunge with its soon 20y range. Whether those 3 charges vs 2 charges really make a difference is debateable, but for certain, not unique!

Let's ingore roles actions (and actions such as Shadowwall/Vengeance and Grit/Defiance) for now, and there are still at least 50% of DRK actions that are copy and paste actions from WAR sprinkled with different visuals and theme - and your characteristic of DRK having risky, low reward actions (Blood Weapon, old Darkside, DA Dark Mind etc.).

The "DRK is a WAR clone"-thing is not just a meme, it describes the state DRK is currently in!

[WhyAmIHere]

To say DRK is a carbon copy of WAR is an overstatement, which should die if people want to make their complaint valid and reasonable. Complaints like these only make it more likely to be dismissed, especially when that complaints are based on seniority.

i feel like i've pointed out the skills that make DRK and WAR near carbon copies in the past, but i CBA to find it.
we all know Bloodspiller = Fell Cleave, and Delirium = IR. Blood weapon's a more jank Infuriate.

Just because you disagree with a viewpoint doesn't make it wrong, especially if you're going to not analyze the merit to the arguments made. DRK plays so close to WAR that, yes, comparing their skills it's not hard to see "oh, A is like B."

[Aword3213]

i feel like i've pointed out the skills that make DRK and WAR near carbon copies in the past, but i CBA to find it.
we all know Bloodspiller = Fell Cleave, and Delirium = IR. Blood weapon's a more jank Infuriate.

Just because you disagree with a viewpoint doesn't make it wrong, especially if you're going to not analyze the merit to the arguments made. DRK plays so close to WAR that, yes, comparing their skills it's not hard to see "oh, A is like B."

The same thing could be said the same to you. Just because some people agree with you doesn't make it right, especially threads like these tend to attract like-minded people because we all know lots people come to this section of the forum are mostly for making complaints. People are less likely to comment each other's opinions when they find themselves allies. Not to mention when people start complaining things, they tend to become more and more biased because they are so fixated on unleashing their anger that reasons alone are not enough, including me though.

The reason that brought me here is the word carbon copy. It is a strong word. If it's partially the same. then it's not carbon copy. Simply considering their mitigation tools and other dps options are enough to know they are not exactly the same

WAR's play style are GCD reliant, while DRK has to weave lots of oGCDs
WAR does not have ground target ability. DRK has one called Salted Earth.
WAR does not have powerful personal shield. DRK has one called TBN
WAR has Upheaval that only spend 20 gauge. DRK only has spenders which all cost 50 gauge
Infuriate augments WAR's abilities, while blood weapon does not
The list goes on

Although I can agree with Delirium = IR part, the rest I disagree. If we remove Delirium and IR out of consideration. They are simply spenders that cost 50% of you maximum gauge. GNB and NIN also share similar properties of gauge spenders. All of their spenders cost them 50% of maximum gauges. By the same perspective, there are jobs that share similar aspect of how they refill their gauges. NIN and GNB have them. SAM, RDM, MCH have them. I personally think the only ability closest to Blood Weapon is Brotherhood from MNK. If you look at it at grander scale, even most jobs are similar in some way. However, we don't say every job is carbon copy just because there're some similarities between them. There are differences you chose to ignore. It's fine by me if it fits your agenda. I understand why people make complaints and their sentiments. I might even support them even though there's something I disagree with. I made a reply simply for that strong word and the sense of long time player entitlement and superiority behind the person I quoted. I said DRK and WAR are carbon copies is an overstatement,but I did not say anyone's viewpoint is wrong. You may have your reasons and they might be solid, but carbon copy is not the right word. It just isn't.

[Nyarlha]

The same thing could be said the same to you. Just because some people agree with you doesn't make it right, especially threads like these tend to attract like-minded people because we all know lots people come to this section of the forum are mostly for making complaints. People are less likely to comment each other's opinions when they find themselves allies. Not to mention when people start complaining things, they tend to become more and more biased because they are so fixated on unleashing their anger that reasons alone are not enough, including me though.

The reason that brought me here is the word carbon copy. It is a strong word. If it's partially the same. then it's not carbon copy. Simply considering their mitigation tools and other dps options are enough to know they are not exactly the same

WAR's play style are GCD reliant, while DRK has to weave lots of oGCDs
WAR does not have ground target ability. DRK has one called Salted Earth.
WAR does not have powerful personal shield. DRK has one called TBN
WAR has Upheaval that only spend 20 gauge. DRK only has spenders which all cost 50 gauge
Infuriate augments WAR's abilities, while blood weapon does not
The list goes on

Although I can agree with Delirium = IR part, the rest I disagree. If we remove Delirium and IR out of consideration. They are simply spenders that cost 50% of you maximum gauge. GNB and NIN also share similar properties of gauge spenders. All of their spenders cost them 50% of maximum gauges. By the same perspective, there are jobs that share similar aspect of how they refill their gauges. NIN and GNB have them. SAM, RDM, MCH have them. I personally think the only ability closest to Blood Weapon is Brotherhood from MNK. If you look at it at grander scale, even most jobs are similar in some way. However, we don't say every job is carbon copy just because there're some similarities between them. There are differences you chose to ignore. It's fine by me if it fits your agenda. I understand why people make complaints and their sentiments. I might even support them even though there's something I disagree with. I made a reply simply for that strong word and the sense of long time player entitlement and superiority behind the person I quoted. I said DRK and WAR are carbon copies is an overstatement,but I did not say anyone's viewpoint is wrong. You may have your reasons and they might be solid, but carbon copy is not the right word. It just isn't.

Thank you! That's the kind of things that need to be said here.

[Bhearil]

The same thing could be said the same to you. Just because some people agree with you doesn't make it right, especially threads like these tend to attract like-minded people because we all know lots people come to this section of the forum are mostly for making complaints. People are less likely to comment each other's opinions when they find themselves allies. Not to mention when people start complaining things, they tend to become more and more biased because they are so fixated on unleashing their anger that reasons alone are not enough, including me though.

The reason that brought me here is the word carbon copy. It is a strong word. If it's partially the same. then it's not carbon copy. Simply considering their mitigation tools and other dps options are enough to know they are not exactly the same

WAR's play style are GCD reliant, while DRK has to weave lots of oGCDs
WAR does not have ground target ability. DRK has one called Salted Earth.
WAR does not have powerful personal shield. DRK has one called TBN
WAR has Upheaval that only spend 20 gauge. DRK only has spenders which all cost 50 gauge
Infuriate augments WAR's abilities, while blood weapon does not
The list goes on

Although I can agree with Delirium = IR part, the rest I disagree. If we remove Delirium and IR out of consideration. They are simply spenders that cost 50% of you maximum gauge. GNB and NIN also share similar properties of gauge spenders. All of their spenders cost them 50% of maximum gauges. By the same perspective, there are jobs that share similar aspect of how they refill their gauges. NIN and GNB have them. SAM, RDM, MCH have them. I personally think the only ability closest to Blood Weapon is Brotherhood from MNK. If you look at it at grander scale, even most jobs are similar in some way. However, we don't say every job is carbon copy just because there're some similarities between them. There are differences you chose to ignore. It's fine by me if it fits your agenda. I understand why people make complaints and their sentiments. I might even support them even though there's something I disagree with. I made a reply simply for that strong word and the sense of long time player entitlement and superiority behind the person I quoted. I said DRK and WAR are carbon copies is an overstatement,but I did not say anyone's viewpoint is wrong. You may have your reasons and they might be solid, but carbon copy is not the right word. It just isn't.

Many people use the term "carbon copy" generally speaking, doesnt mean they are equal (yet) but most of their core gameplay is shared.

I dont think Salted Earth, Blood Weapon or even TBN despite how broken it is gives DRK a substantial difference in gameplay (spam normal combo, refresh your permabuffs when needed and hog as much resources as possible for the burst window where you throw everything you can, then go back to base combo and start again) compared to WAR. They are at best small bits of flavour like Simulacrum that is basically a glorified dot every 120 seconds

Having the same ice cream with 2 different topplings, doesnt alter its taste much even if technically they are not the same

[Benn]

Many people use the term "carbon copy" generally speaking, doesnt mean they are equal (yet) but most of their core gameplay is shared.

(spam normal combo, refresh your permabuffs when needed and hog as much resources as possible for the burst window where you throw everything you can, then go back to base combo and start again)

Um, as someone whos first pick was Samurai and I played him the most.... that's basically how many classes play. You throw everything you can in burst window, and then use your base combo till all CDs alligne again. Samurai works on strict 60s and 120s burst windows and between that all you do is spam his long basic chain.

I mean, you could make that argument about most jobs in FF. That's how system works. FF is mostly a build-up-spender system and I don't see what wrong with that.

What they are trying to do is lowering the skill ceiling to make tanks accessible to everyone. You could argue DRK is an alternative to your 3 other tanks in regards to more interesting gameplay, but that isn't true anymore and most likely will stay that way.
.

This is also my take, and you may hate me for it as new player but that's the only reason FF is my first MMO where I want to main tanks. Becasue tanks already have huge responsibility in party and pressure and I absolutely would not want to have complicated mechanics on top of that and It's nice to have burst window where I throw all my skills at once, it's badass and I like that after that things are simpler and so I don't have to shift my focus that much from other tank responsibilites.

Now, I know this is strictly subjective but believe me when I say it - you have more sprout tanks in game now thanks to SE making tanks simpler and more straight foward. You may not like it - but that's a fact.

[Bhearil]

Dont remember when playing samurai that my rotation was composed of 3 skills on a 1-2-3 combo. Last time i played it you had 3 different combos, without counting the plethora of things you do along the way like Soha or squeezing as many Seigan as possible during aoe situations and using different Iaijutsus depending on the situation and having to adapt to not mess your damage window. Samurai is not my cup of tea but i wont deny that its at least solid gameplay wise.

Getting new players to try tanking is good, problem is that if you get sprout tanks in exchange of losing veterans, you end having the same number of tanks as before but with crappier players. Lately im noticing that most tanks on duties are quite mediocre at best compared to the previous expansions. Before you had the bad tank from time to time but lately im getting lots of "whats cds?" or "only pull 1 group" tanks as well. And it happens with healers sometimes too where they either overheal like crazy, let people die because they dps too much or that they stare the bars doing nothing until the HP goes down without doing any dps at all despite having lots of downtime. Plus you rely on the new players not leaving the roles to play as dps

Before tanks and healers quickly learned to play and when entering Heavensward content they were at least generally "decent", now we can get tanks and healers that can barely know which buttons to press just before entering Shadowbringers despite being almost braindead to tank and heal as long as people dont screw with the (usually basic and recycled) mechanics

[Aword3213]

Many people use the term "carbon copy" generally speaking, doesnt mean they are equal (yet) but most of their core gameplay is shared.

I dont think Salted Earth, Blood Weapon or even TBN despite how broken it is gives DRK a substantial difference in gameplay (spam normal combo, refresh your permabuffs when needed and hog as much resources as possible for the burst window where you throw everything you can, then go back to base combo and start again) compared to WAR. They are a best small bits of flavour like Simulacrum that is basically a glorified dot every 120 seconds

Having the same ice cream with 2 different topplings, doesnt alter its taste much even if technically they are not the same

If carbon copy does not mean what it actually means, then I believe describing it as overstatement is reasonable.

I still don't think their core gameplay is similar though. Points already made in my reply you quoted. However, such matter is subjective and I respect your opinion.