Trust system for Trials

[RitsukoSonoda]

Seems like a lot of failing to admit change in the air when people talking about "but it's an mmo". For many many years now mmos have had massive amounts of solo content, FFXIV included. At this point "BuT ItS An MmO" is meaningless when trying to defend against solo desired content (facetious I know XD... just something fun with CaPs'ing aN ArGuMent... sorry for the child behavior lol). It is and has been a huge thing for many /huge/ mmos for many many years now. That doens't mean you can think it's a stupid change or something lol. Certainly you could say the change is awful and you think it makes the game worse or what have you. But on the reality of mmos currently... "but this is an mmo" is entirely impactless statement to people wanting to have content achievable solo.

At this point in time the multplayer onry people are whether they like it or not sharing space with the largely solo people, and it is by actual game design and not some awkward mechanical happenstance. It's not helpful to entirely kill multiplayer opportunities of course, I'm all for making all of the MSQ multiplayer-able (when it's obviously currently not), but clearly the solo aspect is live, well, and constantly expanding.

There are many articles and videos from top designers discussing this trend as well, it's not a weird thing anymore- people who say "but it's an mmo" against solo concept content I feel are kicking and screaming against reality and claiming what is actually and literally the case is not, and that perhaps sometimes an MMO is accurately described as an MO these days (it's the hot word I've seen a few use at least). Again not a statement that multiplayer content is bad, just that "but it's an mmo" as a counter concept to being able to do massive swathes of the game solo (especially when you consider a component of time, where in if you wait you will at some point in the future be able to 'solo' that) is really a meaningless concept now when discussing pretty much any theme-park mmo of any serious scale and merit for multiple decades now.

The issue is that it seems a majority of the people wanting solo things aren't doing so because they don't want to do things with other people. They're pushing for it because solo MSQ content has an easy mode now that lets them move forward to later conten without having to really play the game. Then these people jump into the group content later wanting shiny things and spend 95% of the fight on the floor before coming back here and complaining that the content is too hard while being a detriment to the other people that got stuck in the duty with them.

I have no issues with solo duties being available. However I feel these solo duties should require as much from the player as the actual group content. No sitting around on super easy mode while 7 bots clear the duty for you.

[Shougun]

The issue is that it seems a majority of the people wanting solo things aren't doing so because they don't want to do things with other people. They're pushing for it because solo MSQ content has an easy mode now that lets them move forward to later conten without having to really play the game. Then these people jump into the group content later wanting shiny things and spend 95% of the fight on the floor before coming back here and complaining that the content is too hard while being a detriment to the other people that got stuck in the duty with them.

I have no issues with solo duties being available. However I feel these solo duties should require as much from the player as the actual group content. No sitting around on super easy mode while 7 bots clear the duty for you.

It's a fair concern, not one I was trying to address, but yeah - no one wants dead weights who think pressing only ice spells is acceptable. One idea, that wont solve all issues (and I'm not sure if it would do most), is that certain challenging content requires you to complete what amounts to a solo test. If you wanted to do EX content in DF for example (not for any story content), then you would have to do a challenge that requires decent damage and understanding of mechanics (if you didn't stack or catch a meteor or something because you didn't understand the mechanic then the test would tell you why you didn't pass and you could try again).

In a general sense I'm actually all for "journalist" difficulty, I think everyone getting to enjoy the game, in a general concept, is totally fine. I played ghost mod (generally makes the game more aggressive / harder than the hard option) iron mode for Witcher 3, God of Wars on the hardest mode, and yet I played Death Stranding on the literal easiest option that was like "game is going to hand feed you, are you sure?"(and I still had a blast). To be honest I like the feature as a matter of time constraints, I wanted to do most of Death Stranding but don't have the time to do it on hard, while I did those other super challenges when I was far more time available. Yet.... of course this does have a multiplayer component and nothing better than someone wasting HOURS of your time because they just.. ... well they're just awful lol.

I see you concern, and I don't mind concepts that put up some barriers.. though those barriers shouldn't be overly obnoxious and they wont even stop all issues. Like some people CAN play well, and then they will to pass the test, but then they're going to leach you ayways afterwards lol. (non-obnoxious being the test for example shouldn't require insane grinding and nor should it be obtuse in how to improve, and I think for MSQ related DF content just carry your team lol, I'm thinking the savage + content).

[Rowde]

The issue is that it seems a majority of the people wanting solo things aren't doing so because they don't want to do things with other people. They're pushing for it because solo MSQ content has an easy mode now that lets them move forward to later conten without having to really play the game. Then these people jump into the group content later wanting shiny things and spend 95% of the fight on the floor before coming back here and complaining that the content is too hard while being a detriment to the other people that got stuck in the duty with them.

I have no issues with solo duties being available. However I feel these solo duties should require as much from the player as the actual group content. No sitting around on super easy mode while 7 bots clear the duty for you.

I think that's a bit of a misconception about how "easy mode" Trust dungeons are.
For trash... if you're only doing single pulls then yah, they can mostly take care of it all by themselves with little to no input from the player.
For bosses, you can't explicitly hide out and expect them to clear it 100%. At a minimum the player has to learn to dodge a majority of the mechanics, cuz the AI healer will often make detrimental choices to save the player... like running into AoEs to top the player off. If the healer dies, the tank usually follows, then wipe and start over.

And let's not even pretend like the current difficulty of MSQ dungeons or trials gatekeeps problematic players, or actually teaches anyone the fundamentals of playing their job in endgame content. Hard carries with players that spent 95% of the time KO'd existed in ARR, HW, and SB too, well before Trusts were introduced. Some individuals are just determined to be bad.

[Canddi]

Why play an MMO if you're worried about people being toxic etc? Just like real life you'll come across jerks here as well. Stick to single player RPG's id it bothers you that much.

I will say though in my experience with FFXIV the people I've met have been 99% nice and friendly. Certainly faaar better than that other MMO....

[Rowde]

Why play an MMO if you're worried about people being toxic etc? Just like real life you'll come across jerks here as well. Stick to single player RPG's id it bothers you that much.

I will say though in my experience with FFXIV the people I've met have been 99% nice and friendly. Certainly faaar better than that other MMO....

Once again, y'all are over 2 years too late for this to be a valid talking point. Trusts already exist in game, as well as Squadrons, and Companions... system to help with Solo play have almost always existed in this game.

[Xtrasweettea]

I wasn't going to consider the subject, seeing it is an OP from one of our resident trolls, but I actually agree with the idea of having Trusts for MSQ trials.

Though, unlike the concern troll reasoning by our beloved and respected troll, the main reason I want Trusts for trials is so that I can do the trial without having to deal with the risk of other players.

In the past year, I have not done Trial Roulette. It wasn't worth the rewards to go in and do a trial that would take almost as long as an Expert dungeon. I can remember the few trials that took more than 40 minutes due to not passing a certain element within that trial that caused repeated wipes: I had Titiana fights that had multiple rounds of wipe (DPS check failures), a Susano fight that we almost timed out on, and a Lakshmi fight where half the party died from the first mechanic that required Vril.

I honestly trust Trusts to run Trials than with other players. If there is any fault of a wipe, it is solely on me. I don't have to deal with other players causing wipes... like constantly failing DPS checks. If I fail, I fail. No one else to blame it on, which I prefer over the additional risk due to the player-base.

MSQ Trials and Dungeons I am all for by allowing Trusts. Raids, 24 mains, EW Version of Eureka, etc. needs to stay non Trust.

[Lexis]

I do like the idea of using a trust system for MSQ Trials, although I entirely disagree with OP's reasoning (and seeing how he hasn't even bothered replying, I suspect it was a troll post to begin with).

For me, it has nothing to do with wanting to avoid 'player toxicity', as I very much enjoy the game's group content and am loving this community. I like going through dungeons for the first time using the trust system for the fantasy and immersion of it. I like listening to the character's quips as we fight, plus I get to watch the cutscenes

I'll look forward to doing the dungeons again with players later on, but having the option to do them with the trust system initially really is great.

[MonsutaMan]

The OP is onto something.....

Many do not play multiplayer games, for the multiplayer aspect...Eevn though it is always there.....

I mean.....Fortnite is a multiplayer game, but there are streamers who have solo streams 90% of the time....

I like Streets of Rage, cause it is a cool game.....Which just happens to be multiplayer.

I feel like, people look at the term "Massively Multiplayer Online Game" and get it wrong, 100% of the time..........

"Massively Multiplayer Online Game" is simply telling the buyer the game is online, and many players are playing among you....even if you are not in a designated party. FATES are one example of this. You are pretty much solo, but you are really not............

It has nothing to do with how one should play, but how the game is designed. The reality is, you are playing among a "Massively" amount of people just by walking around town......That is all that term means.

[TaleraRistain]

Wouldn't be surprised if we see this at least for MSQ trials at some point given the instance in the resistance weapon questline.

[TaleraRistain]

The issue is that it seems a majority of the people wanting solo things aren't doing so because they don't want to do things with other people. They're pushing for it because solo MSQ content has an easy mode now that lets them move forward to later conten without having to really play the game. Then these people jump into the group content later wanting shiny things and spend 95% of the fight on the floor before coming back here and complaining that the content is too hard while being a detriment to the other people that got stuck in the duty with them.

I have no issues with solo duties being available. However I feel these solo duties should require as much from the player as the actual group content. No sitting around on super easy mode while 7 bots clear the duty for you.

So they complain. Why not put the responsibility where it belongs on SE if they decide to respond to that? They could just tell the players to suck it up. But you're blaming players for giving feedback and then you're upset when SE decides to listen to it. The only people who can change the difficulty of the game are the developers.

Also, just because someone could clear whatever bar you want to put into solo duties, doesn't mean they would be perfect in the optional group content either. Or that the person who struggled on their own couldn't learn and adapt in a group setting and do well.

There's also the idea that a lot of people doing the solo duty will never touch the group content. There's this prevalent idea that everything in the game needs to "prepare" everyone for the endgame, when a large portion of the playerbase could care less about endgame.