Implications of Social-Construct terms of "Humanity" and "Beast"

[Iscah]

Dwarves are only ever referred to as a "beast tribe" by game interface structured that are set up around the concept of beast tribe quests, and also the very early pre-launch announcement that they would be regarded as one – but perhaps that was just a simplification of how they were going to be used in the story.

Within the game itself, they are simply regarded as a race of people rarely seen outside of their own territory, and even the special site launching the quest line quietly dropped the "beast" bit and just announced new "tribe quests".

[Zero-ELEC]

One issue is players will continue to use the term "beast tribes", because the actual game UI uses the term "beast tribes".

I'm kind of hoping this will change in Endwalker, but I don't know if it's actually technically feasible.

The marketing materials for Endwalker seem to be going that way, with the introduced tribes of the Arkasodara and the Loporrits being denoted simply as that, "New Tribes", rather than "beast tribes".

It would be thematically fitting if the game itself changed that going forward.

Are the dwarves ever called beastmen? As you said, the term originated in Ul'dah, I don't recall ever hearing it on the First.

They are according to the game's UI. It's all about framing.

[Strongfat900]

The marketing materials for Endwalker seem to be going that way, with the introduced tribes of the Arkasodara and the Loporrits being denoted simply as that, "New Tribes", rather than "beast tribes".

It would be thematically fitting if the game itself changed that going forward.



They are according to the game's UI. It's all about framing.

I'm guessing that the terms like man and beastmen are nothing more than social constructs in othering the other for political reasons which is something the Ascians wanted in the first place. I think we'll be seeing these terms disappear in Endwalker.

[Absimiliard]

All I'm really getting out of this thread is that Lalafell invaded, coined the phrase Beast Tribe, and set about exterminating them to take their land.

In other words; blame the Lalafell.

[Strongfat900]

All I'm really getting out of this thread is that Lalafell invaded, coined the phrase Beast Tribe, and set about exterminating them to take their land.

In other words; blame the Lalafell.

Basically this. The fact that even the author of the encyclopedia Eorzea is baffled by the terms like Beasts and Men, and sees the Beast tribes as simply men which is a word for any sentient creatures or species of FFXIV.
https://i.redd.it/86g4mkeg00v21.jpg

Of course, as the author even explains it, even some members here have their own biases or takes on what constitutes "beasts" and "humans" esp based on their appearances even though the Hrothgars are no more less beastly looking than say the Lupin for example. Of course, Demi-humans are a thing(non-Human races look pretty Human if you will) which perhaps what makes the "civilized" races of Eorzea more fearful to the "Beast" tribes due to their more beastly looks if you will, but as the author showcases that the definition has no definite meaning at all which is indeed a term used by the rich Lalafells to justify the racial cleansing of native tribes for money and etc. What also funny is that these terms don't seem to exist in the First either since the politics in that world are different from the Source.

[kiagenwa]

All I'm really getting out of this thread is that Lalafell invaded, coined the phrase Beast Tribe, and set about exterminating them to take their land.

In other words; blame the Lalafell.

It's not just Lalafell. Imperials also call all other races 'savages'.

[Strongfat900]

It's not just Lalafell. Imperials also call all other races 'savages'.

The Garleans, yeah. The Ascians don't even consider you and other lifeforms as alive either. At the end of the day, these terms are nothing more than made up social terms for political ends. The First seems to cement that idea even further since say the conventional beast races aren't even called as such there.

[kiagenwa]

The Garleans, yeah. The Ascians don't even consider you and other lifeforms as alive either. At the end of the day, these terms are nothing more than made up social terms for political ends. The First seems to cement that idea even further since say the conventional beast races aren't even called as such there.

Lol I mixed the terms with FFXV

[vormela]

SPOILER PATCH 5.5

It is part of a larger trend, I think... the immortal, the mortal, and the problems derived from those seemingly tiered relationships.

The othering gets imposed upon the people who are conquered by civilizations but who still have their own culture--basically, Emet-Selch's sermon at the Ladder combined with the idea of the "ages of man" and development and fall of societies (with Eulmore in the background...ugh this scene is so perfect). Part of his character's problem is that he can't reconcile his intimate knowledge of the nature of problems like the men/beastmen othering with the communal, uniform society he knew before (getting nostalgic over like-minded people gathering, dreaming of Amaurot, in the face of someone who clearly doesn't hold those ideals). I hope someone gets what I am saying because I have ideas but cannot put them into words well. Based on the Thomas More book, I also think he is misremembering and that he wasn't always one of the better-off people in that society, and it gives him insight into the divisions that go to the core of his character. Writing off Ascians as "genocidal maniacs" really makes no sense to me after this story but I appreciate seeing what other people see.

Also, our attitudes are supposed to change over time. I am really ashamed that I did not care much about the Ala Mhigans after running up and down the steps at Camp Drybone (THAT WAS INFURIATING TO ME!!!) and Little Ala Mhigo (ALSO VERY INFURIATING MULTI LEVEL CAVE I HATE IT!!!), but it said more about my preconceptions they had reinforced in-game (with Ilberd and some very hopeless, lost people we met) than it did with the situation. Of course conquered peoples and beast tribes are important, and instead of correcting close-minded people we go befriend people and make connections between groups. I wish it were so easy in real life.

The First

Maybe there is also something about the societies on the First being dystopic that leads to less othering. By the time we get there, they didn't really have wars and stagnated (the aether is referred to as stagnating but I think cultural stagnation enabled that...it's why there are sin eaters ultimately, but Alphinaud also makes sure to point out to the people of Eulmore that they bear some responsibility). I haven't been through all the side quests but I know that I felt the strongest vibes in Kholusia where people are isolated in multiple ways, whether by walls of Eulmore or the unnavigable harbors (they are using the harbor to deconstruct ships run aground for materials, if you don't remember...the Crystarium is also set up for isolation naturally because they are inland and paid taxes to Eulmore for everything).

ctd...

[vormela]

General

I think the writers have pushed the WoL's fondness and talent for associating with beast tribes to draw attention to that being a big part of the story of FFXIV--empathy and leaving the familiar city are prerequisites to being a hero.

The people in the societies that send you out to do the work of interacting with them think they know more about the situation in the world, when really, the beast tribe quests are some of the most endearing and human in the game because they focus on reconciling the past and the future--rebuilding from the ground up in a sustainable image that honors their heritage (in the Moogle and Qitari questlines, that involves interpretation of the past), forces them to go to war for their beliefs and culture (the Vath/Nonmind stuff versus the Hivemind), or requires them to build their own traditions to avoid stagnation and basically extinction (Namazu). The sustainable part comes largely from the alliances with other beast tribes (I have only done the Heavensward allied beast tribe stuff but I assume it is similar for the others).

I think the divide between the cities and the beast tribes would be a lot bigger if we weren't there to befriend them, or they might even be extinct. I like to think that they had more freedom to build out on this idea on the First because it would be hard to go back on the Source and show how society has changed in every major hub. At least until we got the untempering and alliance quests where the leaders now are understanding that allying with beast tribes is kind of a virtuous duty and a true reconciliation of past injustices and not just something to be done out of pity or necessity.

I think the writers are saying a lot about the sociological implications in the overall story over and over again and on these different levels. Maybe there are better scenes that illustrate it (Stormblood maybe?) but I think the Ladder scene is amazing and you can apply it to humanity to understand how the mental gymnastics of "beast tribes" came about. It is also central to the character of Emet-Selch.