Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[SavageCipher]

I keep getting that one RDM in my Expert/80 roulettes, always the same one (I won't name them of course, but man). That one RDM with a shiny ultimate weapon (hot stuff!) who just won't let me tank (I go as GNB).

I pull W2W, and yet somehow it's still not enough for them. They keep running far far ahead of me pulling everything, they even pull the bosses before I reach the area.

I'm not the "you pull it you tank it" kind of tank, but that one RDM just grinds my gears.

Just now in The Grand Cosmos, I stopped for a moment after beating the first boss to type in chat and tell them to stop pulling that crap (not in those words). They didn't care, they sprinted all the way to the next wall and died. The healer and the other DPS, who had followed the RDM btw, ended up bringing all the mobs back to me so we could burn them. And the only thing the RDM thought to do after that was slap a marker "target to ignore" on me. It might seem silly to get annoyed by this, but as I said I keep getting that guy and it's always the same thing. If you're gonna be like that then queue as a tank ffs

Anyway I just left the dungeon. Thought I would vent here while waiting for the penalty to run out.

This is why I'm always the "You pull it, you tank it" type. Been that way since WoW...its all cool if you know your role in a dungeon....more so; know your class. Make it known that he's gonna die a lot, when you decide to not pull aggro.

[SturmChurro]

This is why I'm always the "You pull it, you tank it" type. Been that way since WoW...its all cool if you know your role in a dungeon....more so; know your class. Make it known that he's gonna die a lot, when you decide to not pull aggro.

It's not really worth the waste of time having heals split either trying to keep you or them alive, and/or DPS split. For that matter, one would have to actually be griefing to make it a thing, such as actively avoiding hitting their add(s). Much easier to just have them run it through your aoe and be done with it, or just simply pull it off of them. Everything dies faster, and I can get out of there faster. Not to mention, the majority of adds in this game don't even hit that hard to begin with. It's just not worth it, and doesn't really teach a 'lesson' at all.

[SavageCipher]

It's not really worth the waste of time having heals split either trying to keep you or them alive, and/or DPS split. For that matter, one would have to actually be griefing to make it a thing, such as actively avoiding hitting their add(s). Much easier to just have them run it through your aoe and be done with it, or just simply pull it off of them. Everything dies faster, and I can get out of there faster. Not to mention, the majority of adds in this game don't even hit that hard to begin with. It's just not worth it, and doesn't really teach a 'lessen' at all.

That's purely subjective to the sync/late game armor/weapons. Early on, that doesn't happen. You're literally paper as a DPS, even at 60 and 70, you learn to behave as a dps because you're gonna get two shotted. It obviously doesn't happen in raids because you'll get one shotted. Yes, a lvl 80 unsynced Warrior can spam away at lower level dungeons/raids due to the armor, but that's end game. The majority of the time, you're spending dungeon crawling, very cautiously. Plus that mentality encourages bad habits in teams. If you're not patient enough to wait for the meat shield to grab it, then best roll with friends who are far more understanding.

[SturmChurro]

That's purely subjective to the sync/late game armor/weapons. Early on, that doesn't happen. You're literally paper as a DPS, even at 60 and 70, you learn to behave as a dps because you're gonna get two shotted. It obviously doesn't happen in raids because you'll get one shotted. Yes, a lvl 80 unsynced Warrior can spam away at lower level dungeons/raids due to the armor, but that's end game. The majority of the time, you're spending dungeon crawling, very cautiously. Plus that mentality encourages bad habits in teams. If you're not patient enough to wait for the meat shield to grab it, then best roll with friends who are far more understanding.

The tank could also do their job, regardless of whether a DPS pulls or not. Some may not like it, and that's what a kick function is for. Just as they can be kicked, the tank can be kicked too. It doesn't encourage anything. This can be the cause of full on wipes. It's a complete waste of time.

[akiran64]

I keep getting that one RDM in my Expert/80 roulettes, always the same one (I won't name them of course, but man). That one RDM with a shiny ultimate weapon (hot stuff!) who just won't let me tank (I go as GNB).

I pull W2W, and yet somehow it's still not enough for them. They keep running far far ahead of me pulling everything, they even pull the bosses before I reach the area.

I'm not the "you pull it you tank it" kind of tank, but that one RDM just grinds my gears.

Just now in The Grand Cosmos, I stopped for a moment after beating the first boss to type in chat and tell them to stop pulling that crap (not in those words). They didn't care, they sprinted all the way to the next wall and died. The healer and the other DPS, who had followed the RDM btw, ended up bringing all the mobs back to me so we could burn them. And the only thing the RDM thought to do after that was slap a marker "target to ignore" on me. It might seem silly to get annoyed by this, but as I said I keep getting that guy and it's always the same thing. If you're gonna be like that then queue as a tank ffs

Anyway I just left the dungeon. Thought I would vent here while waiting for the penalty to run out.

Same situation here few days ago but with a shiny ultimate weapon WHM in Expert roulettes when I go with my tank's friend.

The WHＭ pulls everthings without waiting my friend and healings and even start hitting the last boss too(while I and my friend still walking far behind)．
OK,she/he is the strongest WHM and think that can play on all roles wow!

[Seera1024]

That's purely subjective to the sync/late game armor/weapons. Early on, that doesn't happen. You're literally paper as a DPS, even at 60 and 70, you learn to behave as a dps because you're gonna get two shotted. It obviously doesn't happen in raids because you'll get one shotted. Yes, a lvl 80 unsynced Warrior can spam away at lower level dungeons/raids due to the armor, but that's end game. The majority of the time, you're spending dungeon crawling, very cautiously. Plus that mentality encourages bad habits in teams. If you're not patient enough to wait for the meat shield to grab it, then best roll with friends who are far more understanding.

What if it was an accidental extra pull?
Can the healer handle it? Is the healer expecting you to pull the aggro off so they can stop expending more mana than they would need to keep both you and the DPS alive?
How will the other DPS feel about you potentially making the run take longer by potentially getting the other DPS member killed?

I get it, sometimes people don't learn to not do something until the get the consequences of it, but there are 2 other people in than instance besides you and the DPS who pulled.

You have to weigh the effectiveness of the lesson - which likely won't be learned if the healer is good and the other DPS is doing proper AoE's or switches to the enemies attacking the DPS if it's a class without an AoE at the level they are synced to.

Also would you pull the enemy the impatient DPS pulled if the other DPS pulls aggro? Like an impatient Bard pulls but then a Black Mage doing their rotation properly and properly geared pulls the aggro. Would you pull that mob or let the Black Mage take the penalty? If I was that Black Mage, I'd be angry at the tank for not pulling aggro. Because if that mob starts putting down AoE's and I had positioned myself far enough away from the tank to reduce chances of AoE's, now I'm having to move and lower my DPS all because you didn't take aggro.

The tank's job is to take aggro. If you feel a DPS is pulling more intentionally, you ask them to stop, then if they don't, you initiate a vote kick. There's a ton of DPS sitting in queues and there's probably a lot with the option to join in progress chosen to speed their queue.

[SavageCipher]

The tank could also do their job, regardless of whether a DPS pulls or not. Some may not like it, and that's what a kick function is for. Just as they can be kicked, the tank can be kicked too. It doesn't encourage anything. A tank who is actively griefing their party to make a 'point', may seem childish and petty instead to many. This can be the cause of full on wipes. It's a complete waste of time.

That's all and well, but not at all the anecdote you replied to and I'm talking about. The issue was from a tank who keeps running into a RDM who keeps pulling without saying anything. So both are guilty here, for lack of communication, however, the RDM is the catalyst to the OP's annoyance. It definitely encourages bad behavior, you're an enabler, and that's okay...for you, but to a DPS who's just starting an MMO or FF, I would tell them to communicate and not pull huge adds, knowing that the tank will pick said mob up. This problem is nothing new of course. Been happening since WoW....Rogues were/are notorious for spamming "hurry up" or "Go!", whenever the tank(s) has even the slightest second of down time. The main issue is the tank who's annoyed by this behavior, not saying anything due to not being confrontational, either way, said DPS needs to be informed of his annoying and or bad behavior.

[SavageCipher]

What if it was an accidental extra pull?
Can the healer handle it? Is the healer expecting you to pull the aggro off so they can stop expending more mana than they would need to keep both you and the DPS alive?
How will the other DPS feel about you potentially making the run take longer by potentially getting the other DPS member killed?

I get it, sometimes people don't learn to not do something until the get the consequences of it, but there are 2 other people in than instance besides you and the DPS who pulled.

You have to weigh the effectiveness of the lesson - which likely won't be learned if the healer is good and the other DPS is doing proper AoE's or switches to the enemies attacking the DPS if it's a class without an AoE at the level they are synced to.

Also would you pull the enemy the impatient DPS pulled if the other DPS pulls aggro? Like an impatient Bard pulls but then a Black Mage doing their rotation properly and properly geared pulls the aggro. Would you pull that mob or let the Black Mage take the penalty? If I was that Black Mage, I'd be angry at the tank for not pulling aggro. Because if that mob starts putting down AoE's and I had positioned myself far enough away from the tank to reduce chances of AoE's, now I'm having to move and lower my DPS all because you didn't take aggro.

The tank's job is to take aggro. If you feel a DPS is pulling more intentionally, you ask them to stop, then if they don't, you initiate a vote kick. There's a ton of DPS sitting in queues and there's probably a lot with the option to join in progress chosen to speed their queue.

You're moving the goal posts. My response was to that of a tank who kept running into the same RDM who kept pulling. Which is clearly bad behavior, but since armor and weapons being vastly OP end game, they can get away with it. I guarantee you, this doesn't happen on lower levels when you're first starting. If so, I'd like to see a vid...because I've DPS'ed plenty, both on a Summoner, and Samurai, and I still don't pull anything. If I feel the mobs are too small, I'll inform the tank, even then, that's a conversation the healer has with the meat shield. I just kill things. You already addressed my points to which I agree with....communication is the solution here, however, if a DPS is just running ahead and pulling mobs without saying anything....that's a huge problem that needs to be remedied.

[SturmChurro]

That's all and well, but not at all the anecdote you replied to and I'm talking about. The issue was from a tank who keeps running into a RDM who keeps pulling without saying anything. So both are guilty here, for lack of communication, however, the RDM is the catalyst to the OP's annoyance. It definitely encourages bad behavior, you're an enabler, and that's okay...for you, but to a DPS who's just starting an MMO or FF, I would tell them to communicate and not pull huge adds, knowing that the tank will pick said mob up. This problem is nothing new of course. Been happening since WoW....Rogues were/are notorious for spamming "hurry up" or "Go!", whenever the tank(s) has even the slightest second of down time. The main issue is the tank who's annoyed by this behavior, not saying anything due to not being confrontational, either way, said DPS needs to be informed of his annoying and or bad behavior.

I'm an "enabler"? Excuse me? Where did I ever say behavior from either side was okay? I gave a fairly neutral position, cited saving time, and to prevent potential party wipes, a tank should do their job. I also suggested the kick function. By the way, a player choosing to not do their job is actually bannable. It's griefing plain and simple.

[SavageCipher]

good grief, i have had two terrible alliance raids in a row, right after an amazing DRS victory

first one...near wipe on the first and second fights of the tower. Things got better until the last boss...where the same people kept dying. Who happened to be the healers of the other parties.

second raid copied factory. I had one of the worst parties I have ever seen:
-tank that didn't use mitigation
-2 healers that did 0 dps and chatted the entire time and even used cure 1 on me when i misread a mechanic and ate a laser knocking me to 15%
-freestyling samurai who never once used iajutsu
-rdm that constantly died
-dancer that didnt partner (until i pointed it out) or use standard step (they did tech step once a fight)

the only other competent member of the group was the summoner who bless him passed on the glam I have been trying to get for months.

to top it all off, one of the other parties was in a near state of dead for the first and last fight

This is the problem with the non confrontational attitude of FF...a great community, no doubt, I run into some solid people, but problems need to be addressed. If you suck at DPS or healing, you need to be told. I'll link rotation guides, Desperius, etc, if said people don't get it, I won't team with them. We all just can't sit here saying "my bad" and "no problem" while getting wiped and losing hours of what you thought was progress.