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  1. #1
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    It does. Paladin's rotation is the same except for a few removed off globals and adjustments like reprisal and recast times for mitigation.
    That's just flagrantly incorrect. Yes, there were more oGCDs back then, but that was the smallest of the differences. There literally was no Reprisal available to anyone but DRK (nor Role Actions of any sort), for instance; you had no AoE damage, you used Flash for mitigation and initial AoE enmity, and Fracture was a slight dps gain. You didn't yet have an enmity stance at that level, only Sword Oath (with Shield Oath being given at 40), and your group tended to play around its bonus potency by focus targeting enemies in sequence, often with CC (after DoTs, if any of them had initial damage, as those without direct/initial damage wouldn't break CC) in order to free up healer globals for damage.

    Compare that to a Brayflox NM run now. They're quite distinct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jojoya View Post
    You don't need to fear saying WoW. Many of us are former WoW players, whether we quit playing in Wrath, Legion or this summer.
    Depends on the luck of one's draw / the thread, unfortunately. Plenty here are quick to shut down any idea that might have even 10% commonality with "M+" or "borrowed powers", for instance. Granted, the same is true for anything vaguely resembling "Merit Points", "Limit Break Quests", "sub-jobs" or even "Dynamis", in the XI vein. Our community is, sadly, one of the quickest to insist that anyone with ideas that smell even remotely of another MMO should "go back where [they] came from."
    (2)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 09-20-2021 at 09:15 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
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    Mar 2016
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    7,647
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    That's just flagrantly incorrect. Yes, there were more oGCDs back then, but that was the smallest of the differences. There literally was no Reprisal available to anyone but DRK (nor Role Actions of any sort), for instance; you had no AoE damage, you used Flash for mitigation and initial AoE enmity, and Fracture was a slight dps gain. You didn't yet have an enmity stance at that level, only Sword Oath (with Shield Oath being given at 40), and your group tended to play around its bonus potency by focus targeting enemies in sequence, often with CC (after DoTs, if any of them had initial damage, as those without direct/initial damage wouldn't break CC) in order to free up healer globals for damage.
    Reprisal's effect used to be on Rage of Halone (as a physical down) and of course it wasn't aoe, Flash is effectively just replaced with Total Eclipse now except it actually does damage. I remember how guides said to target enemies in order but in my experience BLM aoe made that not a good strategy for the tank.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    12,867
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    Reprisal's effect used to be on Rage of Halone (as a physical down) and of course it wasn't aoe, Flash is effectively just replaced with Total Eclipse now except it actually does damage.
    Except the fact that you had only Sword Oath, your AoE had very little spam value (as it did nothing but inflict enmity and a diminishing Accuracy debuff that only saved perhaps 1.5 healer GCDs over its full duration), healer ST damage had far greater relative significance (especially on WHM), and your optimized damage came at cost to enmity, literally changed what was optimal for your whole team. Once Shield Oath was given earlier and PLD was given AoE worth spamming, that entire dynamic changed. The two at-30 playstyles more different than alike.

    I remember how guides said to target enemies in order but in my experience BLM aoe made that not a good strategy for the tank.
    The guides were sound. At level 30, BLM-BLM, BLM-BRD, and BRD-BRD were the only comps for which it would not be optimal to (CC-)focus-target when running a PLD, since the PLD itself lacked AoE and had high ST damage for its level via its full combo and the at-the-time rather massive potency bonus of Sword Oath. The damage lost from Flash and additional healing requirements from lack of CC and any one enemy dying slower was greater than the what any single BLM could gain from the ppgcd advantage of AoE over ST. Even among those three comps, it was a toss-up.

    Remember, back then periodic damage did not break sleep or bind -- only direct damage did, and many more DoTs (Bio, Bio II, Touch of Death, Shadow Flare, Flaming Arrow, etc., etc.) had no initial damage. You'd use the few that had direct damage, (AoE-)Sleep, and then burn in series, often killing everything such that not a single heal is required for that fight (beyond a pre-Adlo/Regen).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    That's completely untrue. There have always been sprouts everywhere on most servers and the game has been flooded with new players for many, many years.
    Even now, in probably some 70% of my Leveling Roulette runs, my entire party is level synced down by at least some 10 levels.

    Presumably that's just to make me wonder why the point in common between a 58, 64, 73, and 80 is... Dzmael Darkhold?

    Quote Originally Posted by VirusOnline View Post
    Balancing. It's something that 'that game' doesn't have.
    Mate, XIV is no more balanced across the leveling experience than WoW is. It's probably less so, actually. Not that such particularly matters. The reason for the down-sync is as has already been described, the no-win compromise they'd otherwise have to face between lower-level players, in having a more limited kit, being shafted on maximal performance or higher-level players, in being forced to use their full kit at scaled-down value, being shafted in terms of effort required just to do the same as (or barely more than) lower-level players.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 09-20-2021 at 10:51 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
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    Mar 2016
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    7,647
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    The guides were sound. At level 30, BLM-BLM, BLM-BRD, and BRD-BRD were the only comps for which it would not be optimal
    Optimal crumbles in duty finder though because they usually don't care about that.

    Even now, in probably some 70% of my Leveling Roulette runs, my entire party is level synced down by at least some 10 levels.

    Presumably that's just to make me wonder why the point in common between a 58, 64, 73, and 80 is... Dzmael Darkhold?
    That doesn't mean they are not relatively new to the game and it doesn't mean a whole lot overall because if you have done thousands of dungeon roulette solo queues over these years then you have almost always had a first time bonus. If you have made alts on non-congested worlds then there have been new players everywhere for years, even in Stormblood.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    12,867
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeeqbit View Post
    Optimal crumbles in duty finder though because they usually don't care about that.
    Whether people cared about it or not, those behaviors were the norm at the time, hence the difference between the level 30 experience now and the level 30 experience then. To say level sync lets one experience the given content as it appeared in a previous expansion is more than likely going to be just plain wrong.

    [1] That doesn't mean they are not relatively new to the game and it doesn't mean a whole lot overall because [2] if you have done thousands of dungeon roulette solo queues over these years then you have almost always had a first time bonus.
    [1] That a party member is nonetheless new to the game still has no reason to send a party who are at minimum half-way through Heavensward to an ARR dungeon (i.e., to content to which none of the party are new).

    [2] I have done thousands of roulettes, yes. The slight majority of my 4-mans had no first-time bonus, and only some two-thirds of 8-mans (minus MSQ roulette, which have even then about 50/50) had such. That's precisely the point. Yes, roulettes help players get (inadvertently, their first) queues, but it's not as if the every time n people hop into a roulette that at least 1-in-4 players will be one such adventurer in need of a first run. That's precisely why we often end up randoming into dungeons no one matched into the roulette group specifically queued for.

    It's just a reward system. Outside of Sprout surges, it functions to most players' satisfaction regardless of whether it picks up a bonus or helps someone actually in need.
    (0)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 09-21-2021 at 08:05 AM.