Unmatched Madness & Insanity Ever Renewed

[Roeshel]

...

You gotta chill. Not everyone who plays this game shares your opinion. 50-60% is still not 100%. Exaggaration Definition

What is your determination to not understand why we see raging red with the current healers? Heck, some of us are even accepting of the healers that are genuinely happy with this current version or just newbies enjoying a new game, no matter how bitter we are…

It feels like you keep going back and forth on how you truly feel about healers.. I mean are you genuinely trying to explain something and trying to express you like healers now or just bait at this point? If you like the current healers just say that and drop it already.

My argument is that what we have now is better than what we had before. DoT management was not a complex design. It is actually easier to maintain 3-5DoTs and heal with GCD than to spam 1111 and heal with oGCD.

And no, I don't like the current state of healing. I don't have a lot of impactful DPS spells as part of my kit as a healer. As a whm I have only glare, I wanted Spiritual Ray, Flood, Water III, Tornado and some Earth-related spell and I still want them.

I don't even care if Sage neatly solves all of these problems, as if designing one single healer well was an excuse for wretched tedium on the others because "some healers HAVE to be boring"

If Sage is interesting then things are promising. We can all stop playing the dull roles and make them add more DPS buttons. The game will become unplayable if all healers refuse to play. The main reason I almost never play DPS is that I wait more than I actually play in DF. Bad healer design is affecting everybody, not only healers. I can't count the number of times I have instantly left because the tank is pulling one pack of mobs. I sometimes rescue into second mob pull and try to survive while the tank realizes what is happening. This is maybe as fun as it gets for me in dungeons. In any case, their healer design is attracting more ppl who want to do only DPS and heal in their spare time, which results in tanks dying from basic attacks in raids and trials, not casting raise on dead DPS and such. Actually, in normal raids, I would cast raise only on another healer, or tank if both are dead. DPS gets revived by me with LB3. It is the only interesting spell that I can use and the chances of me using it increases as more DPS are dead on the ground. It is only rational to keep them there. Generally speaking when healers are dissatisfied with their gameplay they have the means to make people around them feel not so great. RDM, a dps, can insta raise more frequently than any healer which is an incredibly dumb thing and it makes me not bother with rezzing anyone even more. I really hope that lilies are oGCDs or the DPS loss is removed because I don't feel like casting them instead of glare. In Bozja I learned that utility like Protect Shell is actually a very boring spell to have. We do need DPS buttons with cool SFX. About decision making idk. The only decision-making I know is to cast another glare or dia and figure out how to heal with an oGCD or lily if I need to heal because using GCD heal is the last thing that crosses my mind and I always think something is very wrong if I have to use them, except for regen in dungeons during pulls. There isn't great decision-making in the PvE aspect of the game in general and it doesn't bother me that much. I just want interesting and impactful DPS spells.

[Sebazy]

You gotta chill. Not everyone who plays this game shares your opinion. 50-60% is still not 100%.

Then you're not reading what I'm saying correctly. At least as far as Savage goes, I'm pretty sure I've not claimed that we spend 100% of our casts on nukes. If I have, I was likely referring to content like DR which was what made me give up and level Dancer in the first place. To be clear, in terms of GCD usage, I seem to land at about 70% for Glare alone. Not 100% for sure, but it's still too high IMHO.

Regardless, I'm talking about the volume of key presses, look at my posts a bit closer. My typical one is 'I don't want to press the same button 180 times in one single fight'. That is not an exaggeration and I can link logs where even my past my sell by date, HPS focused and over cautious playing self manages to hit that number. Meanwhile the better healers than me are managing 220+ in some Savage turns.

Show me another job in the game that comes close to pressing one button 220+ times in a single Savage fight. Best I can find is 138 on BLM.

My argument is that what we have now is better than what we had before. DoT management was not a complex design. It is actually easier to maintain 3-5DoTs and heal with GCD than to spam 1111 and heal with oGCD.

Eh, the problem is that you're oversimplifying how healing worked in HW. It wasn't just a case of smashing GCDs and then rolling dots in between.

You had your Enmity to watch out for. Remember, tanks didn't want to use tank stance back then.

You had hugely limited resources vs what you have now. Look at the APM and Active times on something like an early A3S Living Liquid clear, we weren't sitting around because we were bad or the boss was disconnected. We were canceling casts that we couldn't afford be it for MP, Enmity or even that GCD just being too risky.

Last but most certainly not least, you had Cleric Stance. This alone made DPSing in proper content far more imposing and daunting than anything we have today. Whilst I'm of the opinion that it was a lame punishment mechanic, it certainly made you think about when you were putting out DPS.

These factors combined to create a huge gulf in healer DPS output in Savage content compared to what we see now.

Here's two relatively simple punchbag fights, neither of which have particularly imposing healer checks or mechanics.

For HW, I'll use Refurbisher 0, the 'Healers mustn't DPS' movement was on the decline at this point and it was a relatively easy tier after Gordias and Midas so it's about the worst example I could use to make my argument.

For Shadowbringers I'll use Shadowkeeper since it's a good boy and a good punchbag.

If I really wanted to prove my point in a disingenuous manner I could go from the min to the max values which would have the worst WHMs doing less than 3% of the damage of the best WHMS in terms of DPS for HW, meanwhile in ShB that same gap is 70%.

However, it's important to note that these statistics only include the last two weeks for Shadowkeeper, whereas they include all runs for HW including early clears so I'll use the median to upper quartile figures to minimise the extremes such as the green DPS that weren't actually healing anything, the progression runs where the healers couldn't actually heal anything and the Sylphies who wanted to heal everything.

Remember, this is the percentage of damage a median run is doing vs an upper quartile run, the bigger the percentage, the closer they are.

For Refurbisher 0 (HW)

WHM - 47%
AST - 60%
SCH - 80%

Now for Shadowkeeper (ShB):

WHM - 95%
AST - 97%
SCH - 96%

I'll let you make of that what you will.

If Sage is interesting then things are promising. We can all stop playing the dull roles and make them add more DPS buttons.

I can fully agree with you on this one. If SE make just 1 (or ideally 1 barrier, 1 pure) healer have compelling downtime gameplay, that's a huge win in my book. As much as I rail against how things are, I'm not naive enough to think that it should be my way or the highway. SE should be using the varied jobs within a role to offer a choice of gameplay. Currently the choice is minimal, hopefully Sadge addresses that and yes. If it indeed does and the healer population flocks to it en masse, it'll force SE to try and tackle this issue properly.