Healer are no longer Healers we are DPS

[Aword3213]

Go and play WoW please, this is not, Healers have always been Green Dps, albeit with absolutely shittier mechanics.

different people want different things

if your response to other healers, who have different wishes about healers, is play other games, then I would suggest you play other roles as well, other games even.

If you want to have simple rotations, go play tanks. Warrior can heal a good amount without using GCDs

If you want to have complexity of DPS, go play DPS. Dancer, Red Mage, and Summoner(phoenix mode) can heal too.

If you want to support the team while doing DPS. Tanks and all DPS jobs can provide some form of support

Really, no one is stopping you from playing DPS, better yet, go main a DPS and ask for more healing actions so one day you can outheal poor performing healers.

[GrimGale]

If you want to have a simple rotations, go play tanks. Warrior can heal a good amount without using GCDs

If you want to have complexity of DPS, go play DPS. Dancer, Red Mage, and Summoner(phoenix mode) can heal too.

If you want to support the team while doing DPS. Tanks and all DPS jobs can provide some form of support

What if I enjoy the healer fantasy but I don't want to get bored out of my mind spamming one button damage? AST I guess. Or Sage.

What if I used to love SCH's class fantasy, it's tactitian aesthetics, the look of the spells, the book animations. What if I enjoyed what the class used to offer. Debuffs like Virus, Eye for an Eye, slow with Shadowflare, and Miasma.

Where is that tactitian fantasy now? Where is the Elementalist fantasy from WHM? Do I go find them in other classes? Other games? Why are people's attachements being dismissed? Was it really that hard to maintain those things? Did they have to be removed? WHM and SCH have lost so many skills and abilities over the years. They got their kits cut down and replaced with One-button spam. Now made easier with the new shining shorter casts. Do you want to optimize? Better get your stomach ready to see that bar fill up with the same goddam spell 130 times in this 10 minute fight.

I guess there are people out there that really find using Broil or Glare twelve times in a row after each dot enticing gameplay. That they don't see anything wrong or annoying about that. Hey you get to weave in some oGCD spells.

Cool.

Just move on, right. This is no longer the Job for you. Hey better just try something else. Sure.

Oh monk is a disaster? Oh better play Ninja. Why don't you like Summoner? Better play Black Mage. Oh the devs are ready to bend for those Jobs but not the healers. No, the healers have to stick to this amazing ,perfectly designed gameplay. No issues there. No pet IA ghosting. No Dot clipping. No skill redundancy, no problems whatsoever.

[Aword3213]

What if I enjoy the healer fantasy but I don't want to get bored out of my mind spamming one button damage? AST I guess. Or Sage.

What if I used to love SCH's class fantasy, it's tactitian aesthetics, the look of the spells, the book animations. What if I enjoyed what the class used to offer. Debuffs like Virus, Eye for an Eye, slow with Shadowflare, and Miasma.

Where is that tactitian fantasy now? Where is the Elementalist fantasy from WHM? Do I go find them in other classes? Other games? Why are people's attachements being dismissed? Was it really that hard to maintain those things? Did they have to be removed? WHM and SCH have lost so many skills and abilities over the years. They got their kits cut down and replaced with One-button spam. Now made easier with the new shining shorter casts. Do you want to optimize? Better get your stomach ready to see that bar fill up with the same goddam spell 130 times in this 10 minute fight.

I guess there are people out there that really find using Broil or Glare twelve times in a row after each dot enticing gameplay. That they don't see anything wrong or annoying about that. Hey you get to weave in some oGCD spells.

Cool.

Just move on, right. This is no longer the Job for you. Hey better just try something else. Sure.

Oh monk is a disaster? Oh better play Ninja. Why don't you like Summoner? Better play Black Mage. Oh the devs are ready to bend for those Jobs but not the healers. No, the healers have to stick to this amazing gameplay.

I'm not the one straight out telling others to switch out. It's not my place nor any others'.

if the aesthetics is behind your main complaint, then it's fine to complain. I respect your sentiment and it should not be dismissed.

I, too, prefer Elemental aspect in WHM, though IMO some abilities many people in this forum praise and love should go away for good and never come back

You may disagree with me and I can understand it, but there some people really like the Holy thing on WHM. Are they not part of the community? Should they deserve to be ignored?

how about those who really enjoy that one button spam? I know some people do.

Do you tell them switch their jobs when there's no substitute for them?

and If they tell you to switch jobs or go player other games? Should you listen to them? Why should they listen to you?

What makes you more deserving to ask for changes for healers than those who wish to stay the same?

How about Dancers asking for more healing actions and Bards asking for Raise actions? You really want to have different buttons to press while healing, and other DPS want to heal while having different buttons to press

How about all melee DPS asking for more healing abilities because those players prefer melee aesthetics while being healer at heart ?

You can ask for interesting rotations or actions on healers because of your healer fantasy and aesthetic preference, so can DPS and Tank players ask for interesting healing actions and supportive skills because of their preference.

At the end of the day, every job is perfect. No one needs each other and everyone is happy

[GrimGale]

I'm not the one straight out telling others to switch out. It's not my place nor any others'.

if the aesthetics is behind your main complaint, then it's fine to complain. I respect your sentiment and it should not be dismissed.

I, too, prefer Elemental aspect in WHM, though IMO some abilities many people in this forum praise and love should go away for good and never come back

You may disagree with me and I can understand it, but there some people really like the Holy thing on WHM. Are they not part of the community? Should they deserve to be ignored?

how about those who really enjoy that one button spam? I know some people do.

Do you tell them switch their jobs when there's no substitute for them?

and If they tell you to switch jobs or go player other games? Should you listen to them? Why should they listen to you?

What makes you more deserving to ask for changes for healers than those who wish to stay the same?

Nothing I suppose. Unless you think more time played equals more experience, and that deserves more dev attention. I don't think it's wise to center your attention to veterans and "gatekeepers" exclusively.

You could still "one button" spam back in ARR. Heck you have always been able to focus your attention on healing and ignore the DPS part of your kit with any healer. Adding more buttons doesn't hurt people that don't want to press buttons. They just don't press them.

But removing buttons/skills does hurt people that want more complexity or want to optimize, because they are forced to play with less complex kits. Im absolutely fine with lowering the skill floor. But why would you lower the skill ceiling too? Why hurt your veteran players? Is that design compromise completely impossible?

[Sebazy]

My desire for the healer role is really quite simple.

I don't want to see another encounter where I press 1 button 171 times or my co-healer manages 200+

I genuinely don't care if they pad it out with buffs, more healing, more varied DPS or what not. I just don't want to be pressing the same single button for the majority of the fight.

I'd be absolutely over the moon if SE offered more variety within the role but they just don't at least for now. Maybe Sadge will finally get there.

[GrimGale]

How about Dancers asking for more healing actions and Bards asking for Raise actions? You really want to have different buttons to press while healing, and other DPS want to heal while having different buttons to press

How about all melee DPS asking for more healing abilities because those players prefer melee aesthetics while being healer at heart ?

You can ask for interesting rotations or actions on healers because of your healer fantasy and aesthetic preference, so can DPS and Tank players ask for interesting healing actions and supportive skills because of their preference.

At the end of the day, every job is perfect. No one needs each other and everyone is happy

No, I do not accept this comparison. These are not equivalent things, considering how healing works and its value. Healing only has value when it saves a player from death. DPS always has value. Healing is situational by design, therefore making a comparison between giving DPS situational skills and giving Healers abilities that are always useful is not fair. The way healing is designed in this game with sparce damage ditched all around, most mechanics being avoidable, hell, most mechanics requiring you to do them or simply wipe (Meaning no amount of healing will save you, not even shields), really reduce the value of healing abilities.

This is not a debate about Healing stepping on DPS identity. It was never about healers wanting to hit numbers equal to DPS. What causes the incessant one-button spam is the healing downtime prevalence. Healers barely need to cast healing spells to keep everybody safe. It's only made worse by practice, gear and the potency and availability of your healing skills. The more potent your healing spells, the less healing spells you actually need to cast, the more prevalent the healing downtime becomes and the more often you'll find yourself casting your damaging spells back to back over and over.

[Aword3213]

Nothing I suppose. Unless you think more time played equals more experience, and that deserves more dev attention. I don't think it's wise to center your attention to veterans and "gatekeepers" exclusively.

You could still "one button" spam back in ARR. Heck you have always been able to focus your attention on healing and ignore the DPS part of your kit with any healer. Adding more buttons doesn't hurt people that don't want to press buttons. They just don't press them.

But removing buttons/skills does hurt people that want more complexity or want to optimize, because they are forced to play with less complex kits. Im absolutely fine with lowering the skill floor. But why would you lower the skill ceiling too? Why hurt your veteran players? Is that design compromise completely impossible?

I agree with you, but the funny part is that despite taking away so many actions and spells. There are still lots of healers who fail to press what few remaining buttons they have.

I'm sure you may have seen some healers that never use their oGCDs through out the fight.

Probably from SE perspective, the current state of healers has enough skill ceiling as it is, but I jest.

I don't know what will it take for SE to change their healer design philosophy. I personally dislike it and I hope your concerns and suggestions are taken seriously by SE someday.

[Aword3213]

No, I do not accept this comparison. These are not equivalent things, considering how healing works and its value. Healing only has value when it saves a player from death. DPS always has value. Healing is situational by design, therefore giving DPS situational skills as opposed to giving Healers abilities that are always useful its not fair. The way healing is designed in this game with sparce damage ditched all around, most mechanics being avoidable, hell, most mechanics requiring you to do them or simply wipe (Meaning no amount of healing will save you, not even shields), really reduce the value of healing abilities.

This is not a debate about Healing stepping on DPS identity. It was never about healers wanting to hit numbers equal to DPS. What causes the incessant one-button spam is the healing downtime prevalence. Healers barely need to cast healing spells to keep everybody safe. It's only made worse by practice, gear and the potency and availability of your healing skills. The more healing you potentially are able to do, the less healing you actually need to do and the more prevalent the healing downtime becomes and the more often you'll find yourself casting your damaging spells back to back over and over.

I agree and i should not have edited it. That part was meant to be a reply to other different topic in other thread, and somehow i made it towards you. For this I apologize

[Gemina]

I picked up RDM this expansion mostly because I was thinking that Vercure and Verraise would be enough to satiate my desire to heal while having more options to do damage. I was wrong. I noticed that what prevents RDM from stepping on healer toes is their lack of ability to prevent death from happening in the first place. No cleanse, no Rescue, no oGCD or AoE heals, no HoTs or mitigation abilities; these abilities are truly instrumental in allowing healers to keep people alive, and firmly establishes them as healers in FFXIV.

The more time I spend away from healing, the more I realize that healers are not DPS jobs. Much like the ability to speak doesn't make a person intelligent, the ability to do damage does not make healers a DPS job. Even if they are doing it 90% of the time. The reason why I feel that way is because brainless button spamming to cause damage is filler, and the amount of time a healer spends DPSing can directly be correlated to their downtime. No matter if you look at things like 'cause damage until heals are needed' or only cause damage when it is safe to do so; both mindsets will optimize their kits exactly the same.

Healer kits are designed to erase mistakes, or prevent them. The very nature of this role is situational. That's fine, but also easy to see how someone can feel like healers are DPS jobs when the situation usually requires them to do damage. This is exacerbated as players get better gear, and better at encounters. That is a big reason why I did pick up RDM, because if my healers are reduced to ST spam and raises, then I might as well use a job with a more enjoyable DPS rotation while still providing rez support.

[Misutoraru]

My argument is that I NEVER want the party topped up, I want constant damage.

I remember when HW or (may be SB) first came out, playing with my AST
leveling up running all those dungeon we all barely have the il required, and AST heal is so low I am constantly healing just to keep everyone alive
those are the time I have most fun with my AST
now with all the over gearing, and how powerful oGCD heal are. I found AST very boring.
I would rather dev give us have those thrill of intense healing or give us more support skill/buff, make more mechanic that relate to healing, than giving us more DPS skill.