Samurai have positionals?!

[Kolsykol]

I get it, I've seen it.
Got a FC mate who focuses on hitting those positionals.
So
Damn
Hard

Yet they miss mechanics and uptime, and struggle with using AoEs where appropriate.
I've tried to tell them the same thing; that they should focus on those other things first, and then work their way up to getting positionals consistently, but they're not having it

No one is even arguing against this, it's just an attempt to shift the conversation.
People are saying that if you're INTENTIONALLY missing them as in you're not even attempting to hit them but you're ignoring them on purpose then you're being bad.

[ssunny2008]

That's the way baby~
Focus on the big details, but once you're ready to address the finer details don't neglect the small stuff.
Heck, while learning and getting used to a fight its OK to stop pushing buttons all together if you need to focus on learning mechanics. Everything doesn't need to happen all at once.

Learning a fight is something different than learning a class. There are dummies to get used to any rotations and positionals and in like 80% of a fight you´re able to play both strictly down. For everything else you´ve true north, gapclosers, instacasts, whatever a class offers. And when we talk about SAM, you just have to reset a DoT every 60s. The rest is a self-runner while playing 123.

I've seen wipes that close too. It wasn't the positionals that changed it though. It was less people dieing, one person getting a more crisp rotation, one less person out of position, one less time the tank moved the boss slightly wrong. Absolutely the last thing you should worry about is the positionals on all but MNK. Not once have I ever heard any any stream I've seen progressing content, that it is positional that make the difference.

That ppl missplay mechanics is still no excuse to not to give your best. And to give your best includes to play positionals on melees as much as tanks shouldn´t play triangle with the boss or overall all players should use medigation skills. I can´t even count how many ppl i saved with the shared defs from tanks or the PLD carries, when you take all damage away from the healer, so he survives and can use LB3.

Everything can make a difference and will do a difference, even having a handful more Kenki for a backjump/dash combo instead of running out like a chicken. It´s a fact noone can deny.

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

The problem arises when someone holds their GCDs back in order to hit a positional.
Just use the skill anyway. Delaying it costs you more DPS than missing a positional.

[Orbus]

I didn't even realize they had positionals until lv70.

Yeah I still don't care.
Still gonna get half of them just by sitting behind the enemy, damage difference in missing 5 kenki every twenty seconds is miniscule.
Actually, between normal build up and the skill that immediately grants 50 every minute, kenki builds up *so* fast that I keep forgetting to spam shinten just to dump it all. er, spam it even harder than I already do.

[Kolsykol]

I didn't even realize they had positionals until lv70.

Yeah I still don't care.
Still gonna get half of them just by sitting behind the enemy, damage difference in missing 5 kenki every twenty seconds is miniscule.
Actually, between normal build up and the skill that immediately grants 50 every minute, kenki builds up *so* fast that I keep forgetting to spam shinten just to dump it all. er, spam it even harder than I already do.

The point is that this is a you problem and you shouldn't be encouraging others to not do them.
If you're running into too much Kenki problems then it's also something you need to pay more attention to.

If you don't care then alright I guess, but it shouldn't be encouraged.
It's also not as simple really as just '' 5 extra Kenki '' as has already been explained before, there's more nuance to this and if you're not paying attention to your Kenki either then you can easily run into issues where you're missing Kaitens or don't have Kenki to charge in/ push yourself out and get extra gcd's in etc.

Edit: Really tho if you're drowning in Kenki as you're implying then yeah you really do need to be more active with Shintens, especially if you're not even doing the positionals and you're still having issues.
It sounds to me like you're ignoring the Kenki bar too and not just the positionals.

The problem arises when someone holds their GCDs back in order to hit a positional.
Just use the skill anyway. Delaying it costs you more DPS than missing a positional.

Yes but again that's not what people are actually arguing here, people are arguing in favor of deliberately not doing them altogether.
No one here is arguing that you should clip gcds to get a positional.

[MagiusNecros]

Shinten is such an ugly skill. So unsatisfying to use. I very much prefer Kaiten over it. Kyuten is so much more fun over it as well.

[Shurrikhan]

Shinten is such an ugly skill. So unsatisfying to use. I very much prefer Kaiten over it. Kyuten is so much more fun over it as well.

If Shinten stays while Kaiten goes, though, I suspect such will only be because Kaiten only has incredibly bound-up use while Shinten does not. You will only use Kaiten before Iaijutsu and you will never, short of failure, use Iaijutsu without it. One could therefore argue it's nothing but a Kenki and weave-tax, rather than an actual ability (or at least, a decision to be made).

[Kolsykol]

Shinten is such an ugly skill. So unsatisfying to use. I very much prefer Kaiten over it. Kyuten is so much more fun over it as well.

I kinda wish Shinten had a different animation, it feels a bit stiff and out of place like it breaks the flow of the rest of the animations.
It's not horrible and I mean it's a thrust it makes sense but it just doesn't feel as fluid as the rest.

I wish Seigan's animation was swapped with Shinten, Seigan's animation looks way more fluid and weaves into the rest of the animations way better imo.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I kinda wish Shinten had a different animation, it feels a bit stiff and out of place like it breaks the flow of the rest of the animations.
It's not horrible and I mean it's a thrust it makes sense but it just doesn't feel as fluid as the rest.

I wish Seigan's animation was swapped with Shinten, Seigan's animation looks way more fluid and weaves into the rest of the animations way better imo.

I actually loved the thrusting move. I think it's the one from two thrusting move that SAM has, the rest are slashes.

[Kolsykol]

I actually loved the thrusting move. I think it's the one from two thrusting move that SAM has, the rest are slashes.

I don't really mind it being a thrust, I just think that it looks too stiff tbh.
It looks more like a pose if that makes sense.
Like your character kinda strikes a pose and then holds it, it's kinda odd imo.

I am not some kind of a fencing expert and obviously FFXIV isn't a realistic game, but I don't imagine that you want to hold a pose like that you want to keep moving stab and then retreat back.
I do like having some actual thrusts in the animations too tho, Yukikaze for example looks great.

Edit: With that said I actually think that a thrust would work better for Seigan sorta like '' parry and riposte '' it'd work better thematically imo.
But I don't mind Shinten being a thrust either I just wish it was better.