Samurai have positionals?!

[AziraSyuren]

Rythmn... on bosses that like to spin to their target for each attack. To you they make it more fun, to others it is just an annoyance. Also I've seen people lose dps by trying to hit positionals as they end up either out of position as the boss moves are delaying GCDs. So it really is ak hit if you can, but don't go out of your way for it, with the only exception being likely monk since he has so many positionals.

I'm well aware that having to try is an annoyance to many, many players of this game. Trust me. I seem to be talking to one of those lovely players right now.

[wereotter]

Until they stop with the beyblade bosses your entire point is moot. You will lose more dps than you gain trying to hit positionals on a boss that is constantly turning. The positionals are literally the last thing you should focus on after rotation, pots, and mechanics. If you can hit them? Good, if not, it is not a big loss. They are only important if you are going for top parsing, and those are the very small minority of people in the game. Its not a matter of encouraging them to play poorly, it is a matter of prioritizing the parts that actually make up the vast majority of your DPS. The only melee class I'd even mention positions on as a major factor in performance is monk. All the rest? if you hit them, you hit them. If not no reason to get bent out of shape and think you suck. Even on Dragoon, just fucking around you'll hit a good portion of the positionals just by sitting on eth edge of the side and rear of the mob without really trying to actually hit them.

Exaggerating much?

Yes. The bosses spin, but it's not like they're carousels that are constantly spinning in a circle. So sure, if you lose a positional because the boss decided to spit a fireball at the healer, then yeah. That's going to happen. But you also shouldn't be just ignoring them because "what if boss spins!?" you still move as though you're intending to hit it, and if the boss spins and you miss it, then so be it. You still make the effort. You don't just camp out on the boss's backside because you think they're not worth it.

We shouldn't be telling people to ignore them and encouraging them to play their job poorly. It's not just about getting top parse, it's about playing your job correctly. Hitting positionals is like the second level of bare minimum playing a melee job properly, with the first being just hitting skills at all. It's the one thing every melee job has in common, and the main mechanic of playing that role. If you want to ignore that, go play a caster, ranged physical, healer, or tank where they don't matter.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Until they stop with the beyblade bosses

Is this some new meme? This is the second or third time I've seen this 'beyblade bosses' thing.

[Kolsykol]

Is this some new meme? This is the second or third time I've seen this 'beyblade bosses' thing.

I dunno when I hear that term I think of the robot boss from Dalriada and that's about it.
It just sounds to me like people need to learn how to use True North properly.

Yes it requires some knowledge of the fight.
But so does positioning for casters............................

[Mimilu]

Missing positionals on SAM is just an "aw man" rather than a "NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY PARSE!"

SAM isn't the kind of job where you should risk dying to hit positionals, but they're still very important if you want to be doing your best.

That's what Third Eye is for. >w>

[Acece]

Sam can actually lose a lot of pot if you miss a positional you didn't think you missed. Some time's I shinten too many times and miss a positional that would've gave me enough kenki for kaiten, so I lose 400 pot. you should be using your kenki under raid buffs anyhow so it's more then 64 pot In practice.

[AziraSyuren]

Sam can actually lose a lot of pot if you miss a positional you didn't think you missed. Some time's I shinten too many times and miss a positional that would've gave me enough kenki for kaiten, so I lose 400 pot. you should be using your kenki under raid buffs anyhow so it's more then 64 pot In practice.

I remember this being a much bigger problem in Stormblood tbh

[Kolsykol]

If people are struggling with their rotations then they shouldn't even be talking about this to begin with, and the numerical difference will be significantly magnified.
Back to the dummy and practice it.

And no one is saying to miss gcds for positionals I said the exact opposite.
Keeping your gcd rolling is like prio number one, that doesn't mean that everything else isn't important.

And yes crits make a huge difference but those crits would still be higher with positionals not to mention that you may actually be losing out on critical Shintens and that will only be magnified even further with gear.
Again it's just a bunch of excuses and strawman arguments, no one here is saying that you should be prioritizing positionals above surviving or your gcd.
What we're talking about here is people intentionally ignoring positionals don't try and shift the conversation.

[Nothv13]

If you're taking more than one step to switch positions, you're doing positionals wrong. Executed properly, changing positionals will never take more than half a second. The GCD is between 4 and 5 times this, depending on your job and speed rating. Positonals are not a significant burden to warrant ignoring because "trying will just make you worse".

Again, yes trying will make some worse because they do not know the fights, they tank is moving the boss a lot, someone else died meaning the mechanics shift. Unless you got your rotation and fight on lock, trying to go for positionals can very well make you lose dps. Positionals are the smallest factor of your dps and absolutely last thing you should be paying attention to.

If people are struggling with their rotations then they shouldn't even be talking about this to begin with, and the numerical difference will be significantly magnified.
Back to the dummy and practice it.

And no one is saying to miss gcds for positionals I said the exact opposite.
Keeping your gcd rolling is like prio number one, that doesn't mean that everything else isn't important.

And yes crits make a huge difference but those crits would still be higher with positionals not to mention that you may actually be losing out on critical Shintens and that will only be magnified even further with gear.
Again it's just a bunch of excuses and strawman arguments, no one here is saying that you should be prioritizing positionals above surviving or your gcd.
What we're talking about here is people intentionally ignoring positionals don't try and shift the conversation.

I'm seeing people saying if you don't hit positionals then you suck and are losing a ton of damage which is largely untrue. Its the exact same mindset that leads the extreme toxic behaviors we see in other games, that peopel claim FFXIV avoids. That is what I get from this, despite that a person not trying to hit positionals could out dps a person trying to hit positions just out of luck on number of crits.

The 1% or so difference in damage takes into account the crit positionals. I'm not saying positionals do not matter to damage at all. I'm saying they only matter when trying to get the highest possible parse which is only a fraction of a fraction of the player base and that the vast vast majority will never be in a position where such matters, even if they are trying to be. Much much more important things to focus on to improve your play before even thinking about positionals except for on monk because pretty much all their GCDs are psoitionals.

[ssunny2008]

Again, yes trying will make some worse because they do not know the fights, they tank is moving the boss a lot, someone else died meaning the mechanics shift. Unless you got your rotation and fight on lock, trying to go for positionals can very well make you lose dps. Positionals are the smallest factor of your dps and absolutely last thing you should be paying attention to.

I'm seeing people saying if you don't hit positionals then you suck and are losing a ton of damage which is largely untrue. Its the exact same mindset that leads the extreme toxic behaviors we see in other games, that peopel claim FFXIV avoids. That is what I get from this, despite that a person not trying to hit positionals could out dps a person trying to hit positions just out of luck on number of crits.

The 1% or so difference in damage takes into account the crit positionals. I'm not saying positionals do not matter to damage at all. I'm saying they only matter when trying to get the highest possible parse which is only a fraction of a fraction of the player base and that the vast vast majority will never be in a position where such matters, even if they are trying to be. Much much more important things to focus on to improve your play before even thinking about positionals except for on monk because pretty much all their GCDs are psoitionals.

Positionals are always a gain, in case of MNK even way more than 1%. DRG won´t get his buffed attack without them, SAM either lose Kaiten or Shinten. NIN is pretty much the only class who can stay behind the boss 90% of the fight.

And yes, you do suck if you ignore to play positionals on purpose. It´s not a toxic mindset, it´s nothing but the truth. If you don´t give your best, you hinder the whole group. And as a DPS class you should use whatever is possible to increase your damage. Any little percentage can make the difference in content which aren´t braindead dungeons. I´ve seen more than once groups wiping to the enrage at 1% or even 0,1% in savage.
This casual mindset "don´t care about it" is a joke and if you´re not able to play 123, 145, 16 as SAM, you should go practice or change the class. Nothing is more braindead than those 123 combos with 60s buffs. Imo such mindsets are the reason, why the game is getting easier and classes get way too much dumbdowns.
I don´t know why ppl still play games, when all they want is free loot by spamming 1 button.