Update / Revisit Your Blue Mage Thoughts (& Limited Jobs)

[BowWow]

Bad breath just to be clear does not inflict silence lol. I'm glad you like the job but bad breath inflicts silence like the sun is 'kind of warm'. It does interrupt, yeah. But please don't say it's the same, that's just misleading (imo, misleading as functionally not just visually it's not the same- when you're getting pelted by blizzard from a frost elemental you know there is no silence, it's not the same and while it's really not important I don't think it's fair or accurate to suggest it is, they're two different types of enfeebles, like saying paralyze and petrify are the same).

Originally, Bad Breath, along with Flying Sardine, Interject, and Head Graze, did inflict silence for one second, but when 5.0 came out, they changed player actions that give silence to interrupt and removed the debuff. When the silence debuff only lasted for one second, I think that interrupt and silence do behave the same for the players, even if there is no debuff indicated now.

Anyway, I agree with other people in the thread that Blue Mage should be able to go into Eureka/Bozja/Deep Dungeons. They could also make Blue Mage be able to use the Squadron Missions and Stone, Sky, Sea, but I do not care if that never happens. Blue Mage relic weapons would be nice for the glamour, but I would like the weapons to have secondary stat customization, unlike now where the weapons have only two materia slots.

[Shougun]

Originally, Bad Breath, along with Flying Sardine, Interject, and Head Graze, did inflict silence for one second, but when 5.0 came out, they changed player actions that give silence to interrupt and removed the debuff. When the silence debuff only lasted for one second, I think that interrupt and silence do behave the same for the players, even if there is no debuff indicated now.

Anyway, I agree with other people in the thread that Blue Mage should be able to go into Eureka/Bozja/Deep Dungeons. They could also make Blue Mage be able to use the Squadron Missions and Stone, Sky, Sea, but I do not care if that never happens. Blue Mage relic weapons would be nice for the glamour, but I would like the weapons to have secondary stat customization, unlike now where the weapons have only two materia slots.

Ah so maybe that's what they're thinking. But to be clear I was thinking classic FF where you get hit by everything for a long time. Silence 10 seconds would not even remotely equal to an interject of once, therefore what I meant stands but perhaps we needed the clarification. Silence != interject, assuming we are discussing durations of buffs that are not "1 second". Although in a most hair splitting scenario that's still not the same, since interject is instantaneous of one event and the other is an event of 1 second which spans.... 1 second lol.

I do know like spirits within used to silence the enemy to a function which is very very similar to an interject now does. In which case we were suffering a miscommunication as I referenced classic, I don't mean "turn interject back to silence" I mean "where's silence for the 10 punishing seconds I remember it doing in other FF games, that elemental is casting spells at me and I know under a classic scenario, at least some of them, they'd be needing to dig through their pockets instead for a potion" (but also like.. it doesn't really matter, since bad breath is already pretty cool until you get so strong that the debuffs are kind of irrelevant).

Edit: just for giggles I went and got hit by bad breath - I'm wont for hurting lol, does inflict a multiple second silence (among other debuffs the spell for blue mage doesn't do). So I wasn't really out of context for the game itself, but I was meaning classical sense anyways (when your screen is full and you're like 'oh gawd' lol).

[BowWow]

Ah so maybe that's what they're thinking. But to be clear I was thinking classic FF where you get hit by everything for a long time. Silence 10 seconds would not even remotely equal to an interject of once, therefore what I meant stands but perhaps we needed the clarification. Silence != interject, assuming we are discussing durations of buffs that are not "1 second". Although in a most hair splitting scenario that's still not the same, since interject is instantaneous of one event and the other is an event of 1 second which spans.... 1 second lol.

(but also like.. it doesn't really matter, since bad breath is already pretty cool until you get so strong that the debuffs are kind of irrelevant)

I assume the developers did not want players to stop several spells with one silence, so now we have interrupt that is a silence at an instant but cannot be fully resisted like status effects. haha I get what you want from Bad Breath/Silence, though. While the Bad Breath talk does not matter, I find it a little amusing to think about the implementation of silence in FFXIV.

does inflict a multiple second silence (among other debuffs the spell for blue mage doesn't do).

Other than the long silence, Blue Mage's Bad Breath does not cause the first part of Nausea, the lowering maximum HP by 20%. As a result, they should make our Bad Breath lower maximum HP by 20% as well.

In any case, I find Blue Mage to be very fun at this stage of its implementation, and I am eagerly awaiting the level 80 update. You mentioned how you would change the current spell kit such as removing the stun-like effects off some spells, but what are you hoping in terms of new spells?

[Vyrerus]

Basic Instinct offers no additional protection, and it’s only damage buff is just reversing Mighty Guard’s downside. Go into an instance solo-synced, you’re screwed.

Basic Instinct increases damage dealt and healing potency by 100% and drops Mighty Guard's only penalty. This boosts Gobskin to a 500 potency shield under healer mimicry and Pom Cure to a 1000 potency Cure 1. You can literally solo the highest level 70 dungeon in roughly 16~17 minutes with it, if you know what you're doing. You can solo the normal mode raids at 70 as well, except for A11/12(without incredible crit RNG).

[Vyrerus]

I said it with the Primal spells

BLU is balanced within the rules they want players to have. I've read your posts in this thread, and I think you could stand to look at it from another angle. Everything you dislike about the way the spells are balanced or with what they do isn't looking at things from how the other jobs are limited in the game.

For instance, let's compare what is essentially BLU's invuln to the other tank invulns. Diamondback vs. Hallowed Ground, Superbolide, Holmgang, and Living Dead. Diamondback has no cooldown but costs 3000 MP and makes you unable to act or move during this. Essentially, if you need that level of mitigation(and you often will in Savages/Solos), its only restriction is your MP pool. This means, though, if you really need to, you can Diamondback every 5~6 casts of Blood Drain. This essentially makes it Hallowed Ground on a 12 second cooldown. Pure insanity. The other tank invulns don't even compare. It also works to mitigate raid wide ultimate damage, making it more akin to a personal tank LB3.


Let's compare BLU's DPS rotation to other DPS rotations. Primal spells are all insane potencies on relatively normal or low cooldowns. Your filler spells are myriad, so you can have what you spam in down time change, and if you've got the spell slots, you can mix it up whenever/however you want. It's got AOEs, line, radial around BLU, radial around target, 1 second casts for weaving, 2 second casts for power. The only downer is that they left some of the early spells that by rights should just as powerful as later spells in the dust (Lookin' at you, High Voltage). It's flashy, it's cool, and it never feels boring. And it's alterable! No DPS can boast that. It's also the only DPS in the game so far that has access to a full power raid wide heal.

As for early BLU being disappointing... that's actually just staying 100% true to BLU in prior Final Fantasies. There is not a single Final Fantasy where BLU right out of the gate is the powerhouse it becomes by mid/late game. For the record though, I don't think the 1 to 50 spells were disappointing. They introduced a lot of concepts to look forward to, and a lot of them are enhanced by later spells added/come into play with later spells added. The only spell that's disappointing to me is 1,000 Needles, but it's just being true to Blue Mage. That spell falls out of use eventually in every game it's in, except in low level challenges.

BLU is balanced the way that it is so that you have to give it some thought. It comes with the laundry list of monsters and bosses where instant kills/flat damage spells work or they don't. Like the first boss in The Burn is susceptible to flat damage, so you can instantly kill it. If you've got a good handle on what the normal jobs are capable of, BLU is a total monster compared to them in every conceivable way. I like walking up to a boss and casting Tail Screw and seeing it do 3.9 million damage, and then it dies from my cane tinking on it for 7.

Oh, and as far as spam goes... it means no cooldown, which translate to powerful in a lot of ways. There's also just the fact that spam is kind of what we do in MMOs. Like, sure, a lot of jobs don't feel like they spam because they go through combos with different animations, but there's always a limit, isn't there? It always becomes spam in some form, and while I get why you don't like it, it's just the nature of long term fights and play. BLU is by far the furthest job away from spam. That slot belongs to normal job healers since 5.0.

[BowWow]

This boosts Gobskin to a 500 potency shield under healer mimicry and Pom Cure to a 1000 potency Cure 1.

Doesn't healer mimicry increase Gobskin and Pom Cure to 250 and 500 potency and then increase that further by 20% due to the innate nature of mimicry? This would make Gobskin give a 600 potency shield and Pom Cure give a 1200 potency heal under Basic Instinct. I only ask since I see no one mention the 20% usually. Either way, Vyrerus is right about the solo capabilities of Blue Mage! Once Blue Mage is level 80, it will be neat to see what you and other Blue Mages accomplish in terms of solo'ing.

[SpanishInkwehsitor]

Doesn't healer mimicry increase Gobskin and Pom Cure to 250 and 500 potency and then increase that further by 20% due to the innate nature of mimicry? This would make Gobskin give a 600 potency shield and Pom Cure give a 1200 potency heal under Basic Instinct. I only ask since I see no one mention the 20% usually. Either way, Vyrerus is right about the solo capabilities of Blue Mage! Once Blue Mage is level 80, it will be neat to see what you and other Blue Mages accomplish in terms of solo'ing.

Considering I just got AM, I snatched up healer and Pom Cure went from curing for like 1000 to 5000 @ 60, that feels more like a potency change of 100 to 500 to me.

[Shougun]

I assume the developers did not want players to stop several spells with one silence, so now we have interrupt that is a silence at an instant but cannot be fully resisted like status effects. haha I get what you want from Bad Breath/Silence, though. While the Bad Breath talk does not matter, I find it a little amusing to think about the implementation of silence in FFXIV.

Other than the long silence, Blue Mage's Bad Breath does not cause the first part of Nausea, the lowering maximum HP by 20%. As a result, they should make our Bad Breath lower maximum HP by 20% as well.

In any case, I find Blue Mage to be very fun at this stage of its implementation, and I am eagerly awaiting the level 80 update. You mentioned how you would change the current spell kit such as removing the stun-like effects off some spells, but what are you hoping in terms of new spells?

I NEED 20% MAX HP REDUCITON! NAO!!! Lol. Yeah I knew there were more debuffs (well obviously, mentioned them xD), it was just an off hand comment that I noticed fairly quickly that it wasn't a complete bad breath but that even if you made it complete it wasn't entirely relevant. Although on the comment of stopping more than one spell with silence - frozen 10 seconds is more powerful than 10 seconds of silence, I'd think, so it's not that crazy of a thought to suggest, though maybe there is some under the hood issues with things like pacification or silence that just makes them annoying to use over an interject. (Heck those, silence/pacification, could just be the new interject in literal code format lol - dunno).

I suppose 20% reduction is cool on a boss but personally I actually don't want too much "delete's boss hp" and on a normal monster.. meh just give me a dot lol. I referenced the whole true blue thing before as a way to show frustration, particularly when the job was first announced, and honestly is just a remnant thorn in my mind now. With dialog along the lines of "want it be limited to have classic spells" yet then you can obviously tell they chose not to do that due to balance reasons, which makes me wag my finger like an overly dramatic tween in a complicated and silly love plot. "We had to make it limited to give you a true experience, but on the same hand actually you know what- we're not going to give you the classic spells" (line of thought bothers me), but hilariously - I also personally don't even want them I just want them to be fun first (as you noticed but some concepts I think are "that's just not fun at all" like self stun or movement skills with cast times and little else for benefit except for hyper niche situations). For example if Doom worked on pretty much everything it would be... strong.. but.. 1 shotting everything isn't really that fun after the novelty wears off. I'm fine with some stuff being immune, but the whole chance base mechanic I find annoying and I recognize if it was a more assured thing that it would probably need something else. Which is why I make a suggestion like remove the chance, add a cooldown, add an effect if it fails to kill (so it's not useless on targets immune), and now you got a cool "boom you're dead" spell that doesn't waste your time and is also useful in more cases. With variations of that possible like for missile I had suggested the cost, and chance, grow such that you 'may' have to cast it three times but it'll happen (and it'll become insanely mana hungry).

A general want- I do want blue to be considered king of solo, in such a way that even your current jobs are not going to throw shade on blue- blue is the job you'd use to solo if you had wanted to do some old content alone (and then ideally open up more old content, if it doesn't break servers- like Eureka or Deep Dungeons). I think given /some/ situations that's already true (Paladin is still pretty boss with the defense and self heal), but healer mimicry with basic instinct is pretty insane too (given the heal is so cheap to spam as well).

For new spells I don't have a specific spell from a specific enemy that I'm like "must needs that", but I would like to see spells continue to have interplay but also perhaps encourage a theme like concept. The problem with such is that I think it would do better if the earlier spells work on this as well, rather than so late. Besides the fact I just look at a lot of spells as bodies on the path to the mimicry builds (by that I mean mimicry makes a clear set of choices, at least at the moment). But you know you might see, like I tried to suggest with Fire Angon, an idea where each unique fire spell causes a positive interaction, yet then another -not- fire element could be helping bring the cooldown back around quicker.

It's not a new spell but seeing a FFXI like passive system would be neat, particularly I'd hope that it's more of a socket materia (Path of Exile) system in your soul gem. Such that you might combine spells together (in the gem, seperately from your kit itself) to create effects that range from useful but normal "+attack, + hp" to more unique like "+10% evasion, + cast, immune to sleep" to as weird as interactive "when target of a debuff heal 10% hp over 5 seconds, half resistance" "lightning spells have a chance to be cast again at a random nearby aggro'd target" etc. This allowing even more spells, hopefully, to be seen as useful even if they're not.. useful anymore on your hotbar (like lets say 1k needles made a great combo with Cact'guard when slot together in your soul gem, making some interesting effect that's valuable, well a really basic example might be that combo upgrades 1k needles to the next tier 1___k needles (when equipped), but I'm sure better ideas could be made lol).

Talking about trading card games, Diablo 3, Hades, etc- I'd love to see a sense of themes and builds appear- someone who has decided to take a focus on debuffs, water, thunder, whatever, and for the most part those themes can amount to something. Of course with a small selection that concept is unreasonable but assuming they don't drop blue we're going to be like 150 spells in the not too distant future, so.. sounds more achievable then. Such that you might get spell 1 to 5 and be making a theme, maybe you get the mana blood drain idea on the first page and it's not bad but you don't really use much mana so it doesn't help, yet, then you get flamethrower which drains your mana and you go "omg I've got to put blood drain back onto my hot bar, this combo is going to be great", it allows you to go full burn, and then 20 levels later it's thunder and water, with a sort of area creation system (lets imagine some water spells may leave water spills, AoE areas almost like a geomancer mechanic that thunder and even blizzard may interact with), but then you find a passive that reduces your max health yet increases tick rate and heals you 1/2 - 1% per tick (wont work so well if all the spells replace each other's DoTs..., so let's assume they don't lol) - now you've changed all your abilities again, but then you get a new spell that interacts with sleep in a powerful way so you go back and notice/combine the other dream spells and you've got yourself a Chthulu like nightmare mage mind flaying and noodle touching everything. There are builds via the tank, dps, and healer stance currently, but.. not really what I was hoping for- perhaps the best you can reasonably expect for a 'side content' that isn't supposed to get loads and loads of funding (I can imagine making webs of interactions does take longer than maybe SE wants to spend... I mean I've only barely kissed the surface of what you'd have to think about, it's temping to try and make a web oneself but the effort would be both a lot (many hours probably) and likely wasted since it'd be quadruple the length of what I have already typed and of course from "fanficition" tier of work vs professional developers lol, but if it was possible I think that'd be "that's cool... that'd be really cool..."- particularly as it helps justify the huge book, and the huge book and wacky combos justify that it's limited as there are powerful spells but if you can say "change these 10 spells and it's almost a regular job in balance", which was very true at release and still slightly true now, is a different situation than if you were like "you'd have to change 90% of their skills for it to even remotely be fair"). An example of a spell that would immediately bring blue mage back down to earth is getting rid of mimicry, instinct, and the instant death mechanics- suddenly you've taken a absolutely mammoth swipe at the balance issues of blue mage (not saying it's going to be normal ready, but I can see why some people think blue mage is 'close to normal' given that by in a short sentence you could instantly drop blue mage out of the clouds and back close to the ground.. which another way for me to say make it impossible to knock it out of the clouds if it's going to be limited, make it so nearly no single item could fit smoothly because it's just like "IT WONT FIT" and someone screams at you to make it fit and you just cry and say "I'll just have to scrap the whole thing!' lol.).

It's naturally very easy to say "I want to have mind bending combinations that are fun" and faaar harder to actually achieve that, which is why I do try to reference some games which I feel have done a decent job on that front (and when suggesting changes to spells that already exist, trying to occasionally build in themes- but.. all very easier said than done). What is it takes years to build and seconds to knock down? :/... I take time to say something like that because normally, I think at least, I've not been so.. blunt? Cruel isn't the right way, but my lack of appreciation I don't think has previously really been so strong (even housing or glamour where I think there is incredible potential to blow people's minds and add value, I don't really have a negative feeling given the situations around it). I don't think it's fair to say arm chair dev since I don't believe I'm better, I don't expect most ideas to be used, but I just hope to well describe feelings, frustrations, and desires, and specially be transparent on that (which is why I occasionally almost reach a third person state of narration of what I feel).

I'd hate not to think of any spells I'd like to see in the future since you've asked though. Strongly believe if you're going to be criticizing something someone has spent a lot of time in that you should at least try to put some time back. Nothing like having someone say "I don't like it, it sucks, remove it" and you of course will naturally have hurt feelings, even if perhaps that person is right in an estimation of there is an issue with the content / media (or they're totally wrong, that's possible too), but then you are left with no where to go or think because all they did was kick down your sand castle and immediately run off. Jerks.. lol.

Some quick thoughts (non-comprehensive, not strict, just things that popped out to me relatively quickly when thinking of spells seen in ShB):

Spell-in-Waiting from Voidwalker could be fun, cast it, next spell you cast gets locked into spell-in-waiting. Perhaps a mechanic added that you need to cast 5 spells afterwards (or time I guess), then you can use whatever was locked in. Meaning you could lock in a 60 second cooldown spell and cast that twice. Just for the sake of it, double debuff duration ignoring resistances (to spice up debuffs, DoTs even, and non-huge burst spells- as otherwise people would probably just Matra Magic twice and call it a good day lol - which I'm fine with, but it would be nice to have someone perhaps scratch out a different path). Technically Double from Hades would do a similar effect but... I kind of thought to avoid too blatantly using a huge spell twice in a row. But I'd be up to persuasion lol.

Although I'm not sure the mechanic I'd love to see a big arm pummel skill from Hades (though sephirot could work too), mechanic issue being if it's the split in the fight it's not really helpful lol. Could use his Captivity, with large arms out from the blue mage (visual potential is pretty good) - monsters that can be locked in a stun / frozen like debuff would be but otherwise it would still continue to do damage in that area, while captivity is active astral (that's dark right?) related spells deal more damage (maybe as long as you're stationary you can cast spells while the two huge claws hold your target in place). Bit.. liberty with the spell but mentally I see being able to recast captivity while it's still active allows you to place down a marker where in the orb (with monsters in it, if they're the type that can be stunned) will be tossed to said location and the effect ends immediately (allowing you to chuck enemies).

I loved the visuals from Innocence so we could just copy paste them all lol. I suppose picking up a few visuals- Rightful Reprobation from Innocence is cool, well really any of the holy sword attacks, though I don't immediately have an effect I want from them. Winged Reprobation has the unique idea that you might encourage the blue mage to move while fighting, if the light walls that circle you move and you want to keep the one enemy in that space you'd cast and move at the same time to keep them in the area of effect as it rotates around you (and thus you around your enemy). This move cast might be fun, and on that note there might be some nice value in seeing a 'lightspeed' (AST) like spell which cuts down the max cast time. Also Beatific Vision could be a fun move skill, as I said before I think move skills should use casting times very very carefully (both loom and flying frenzy I'd put on the 'eh' list, though I suppose that comes from a more active experience of move skills.. like MOBAs, slow move skills just hurt me ... on a personal level! lol)- but to try and counter myself I could see this skill being one where you preload. Cast the spell (Beatific Vision) you float up get all holy and pretty like the boss, perhaps gain a short buff of some sort (Maybe casting holy spells gives you a shield, physical spells have holy swords appear and strike through them in a line like the boss fight, or something else to theme), after some amount of holy or physical damage with 20 seconds you can cast the dash skill (no cast time, deals holy and physical line damage). If we were using the passive idea (PoE, FFXI, materia, etc) might have some augments that fit well here.

Pure Beam from Eden Prime would be loads of fun, maybe it starts with Dimensional Shift which summons a series of orbs in a radius around you- for X seconds (or Y actions) after any line attacks you do take 1 second longer to cast and will be self target (not hurting you, just like the boss) and then each orb will cast that line to a random enemy in combat with preference to those nearest to you. Non-unique Consecutive casts will have reduced potency (could be two different line attacks, could be a line, some other spell, and then another line).

Spectral Thief's dash / shadowdash could be great fun, if the game can handle that mechanical idea (a spell within a spell). Would allow you to reposition during the cast of a spell (doesn't break channel, cast, etc), shadowdash being even more crazy seeing as it might be something like. "Dash to location, even while casting a spell, if casting a no target aoe spell a clone will duplicate the effect in a random nearby location). The idea of a cast within a cast is something I thought might be a fun concept for even normal jobs, like if Bard was singing and yet they also could have other actions going on, or if like while Samurai was charging their blade they might be infusing a weapon art to their scabbard (so when drawn it does something extra, rather than using new buttons it could replace a few 2 / 3 deep combo skills). For blue mage one thought might be gigaflare (that last lunar bahamut), but like when casting a spell you can pound the key as fast as you can to release 1-10 flares each one doing okay damage (but the total being impressive, OR each press loads up so at the end of the cast of whatever you're doing then you launch off all the flares at once dealing a lot more in one go - meaning a a slower cast spell would actually help get off more flares).

So an example of things coming together in theme might be Depth Grip from Rukshs - if water spells, or some spells in general, had a concept of creating zones (which have their own purpose but then might work into others) then you could have this spell come out and do it's thing like the boss. Of course you can simply say it creates two depth grips near target enemy (even if Depth Grip used puddles previously existing, I'd probably suggest that it creates one depth grip of it's own just so the spell isn't entirely reliant on another), but such if you had water spells have a trend to create a mechanic of it's own justification that also flows into others.. could be good. (Similar to how say Hades, the game, works, obviously a better working example than my random throw togethers).

Mortal Flame from the Insatiable Flame where you choose a target and a burn effect applies without timer (dealing damage during this as well), each tick the debuff gains a stack (increasing potency), however you'll also have increased penalty debuff to yourself that grows until you cast mortal flame again (no target needed on second cast, to prevent issues with dead / phase changes) which ceases the growth of the DoT (and then proceeds to count down, there will be a maximum tick damage stack.. just in case someone kits themselves to keep it on indefinitely lol). As you cast Astral spells the mortal flame burn (on target) builds faster but mp costs increase across the board, and prevents mana regen, as you cast Umbral spells the buff and debuff will stop increasing itself passively for 3 seconds and allows for mana regen during that window (however casting Astral spells still keeps it's positive and negative interaction).

Maybe another thought to passives (either in built to a spell with an active, or the PoE materia FFXI thing)- paralysis changing to static charge which interacts with spells (like certain lightning effects might randomly attack them in addition), interacts with paralyze spells and can't be immune / resistant to (but the paralyze is less often and may not even take action on immune bosses, just simply the static applies regardless). Each time an enemy is either hit by certain effects or reaches max stack the charge is removed and you gain a buff which grants reduce cooldowns and increased cast speed on non-thunder spells, but thunder spells have a chance to proc extra effects and are integral to keeping the static coming (this buff being reset when gaining a charge, but also the buff may be used in other effects). All of this mostly because in my mind I picture the Quetzalcoatl boss with Winding Current and you're in the center quickly applying charge to enemies, acting as a tesla coil in the center of it all. "MOAR POWAAA" lol..

Though mentioned in the other post about how Sardine combo'ing with a shark move would be fun, so of the same dungeon with the two shark bros, maybe if you cast the sardine and hit an enemy with Tidal Guillotine it causes a bunch of fish to appear around you like a Death Stranding scene after fighting a BT (fish on the ground). The fish flopping about doing their own small aoe interjects like a mine field. Bull Rush (or whatever that shark attack was called from the Ruby dungeon) healing you (and consuming) each fish you pass through (giving you a frenzy buff that reduces cast time on water and physical spells). Or something.. I just want a shark fish combo lol. Although going off that, and some of the other goofy spells Blue Mage has, might be cute to see a 'theme' (as I mentioned other themes that might come around) for the goofy kit such that you're this sardine wielding, snorting, tingle casting, chicken knifing, fat chocobo stomping (FF7 primal) blue that just somehow works (why.... just because ... lol, importance? Absolutely none XD). If that were to happen obviously more silly spells needs to be added, but I can imagine also the job where you summon pets - like a bunch of baby zu, dodo, or other cute goofy animal.

Wellbore from Amphibious Talos could be fun, a continuous knockback damaging spell with perhaps a slight change such that it becomes an arena where monsters are trapped inside the well (in the boss fight you can escape the space, but here it would be less forgiving). Knockback attacks that move enemies into the well deal extra potency over the potency already taken by enemies hit by the water pressure. To achieve an arena does take a lot of visual space though, maybe so much that one opts for only one geyser instead of four. At least then have the spout throw enemies into the air if hit by the initial cast, then applying dropsy, good time to interact with Depth Grip if such ideas were ever used, and aggressively knocking back enemies (such that you could dance around the spout and the monster is having a real hard time getting to you if a physical enemy).

Griaule's growing may be another, though I don't immediately have a thought of effects beyond the novelty of making yourself big.

I know I just picked a bunch of instance content lol, so one in the open world I think of is Badder Breath though at the same time I don't love the idea of a spell full replacing another spell.. so some difference would be nice. The porksy pigs from the Fae area is a must for spells, especially if one was sincerely building a 'goof' build. Goblin punch from the Li'l Murderer seems like a must, as a classic, although I think more of the lightning bolt of OWWW, and the big poo hunt monsters more lol. Probably rude but Gunitt for more of the deep sea mind flayer theme lol, but that's an S rank so..... ....... XD.

Other quick random thoughts, Elddragon Dive and To the limit (good luck with that one lol), Sewer Water / Wave (maybe combos with poison / bleeding stuff), the mockery enfeeble from the Gremlins in lakeland (maybe good for tank).

[Shougun]

BLU is balanced within the rules they want players to have. I've read your posts in this thread, and I think you could stand to look at it from another angle. Everything you dislike about the way the spells are balanced or with what they do isn't looking at things from how the other jobs are limited in the game.

For instance, let's compare what is essentially BLU's invuln to the other tank invulns. Diamondback vs. Hallowed Ground, Superbolide, Holmgang, and Living Dead. Diamondback has no cooldown but costs 3000 MP and makes you unable to act or move during this. Essentially, if you need that level of mitigation(and you often will in Savages/Solos), its only restriction is your MP pool. This means, though, if you really need to, you can Diamondback every 5~6 casts of Blood Drain. This essentially makes it Hallowed Ground on a 12 second cooldown. Pure insanity. The other tank invulns don't even compare. It also works to mitigate raid wide ultimate damage, making it more akin to a personal tank LB3.


Let's compare BLU's DPS rotation to other DPS rotations. Primal spells are all insane potencies on relatively normal or low cooldowns. Your filler spells are myriad, so you can have what you spam in down time change, and if you've got the spell slots, you can mix it up whenever/however you want. It's got AOEs, line, radial around BLU, radial around target, 1 second casts for weaving, 2 second casts for power. The only downer is that they left some of the early spells that by rights should just as powerful as later spells in the dust (Lookin' at you, High Voltage). It's flashy, it's cool, and it never feels boring. And it's alterable! No DPS can boast that. It's also the only DPS in the game so far that has access to a full power raid wide heal.

As for early BLU being disappointing... that's actually just staying 100% true to BLU in prior Final Fantasies. There is not a single Final Fantasy where BLU right out of the gate is the powerhouse it becomes by mid/late game. For the record though, I don't think the 1 to 50 spells were disappointing. They introduced a lot of concepts to look forward to, and a lot of them are enhanced by later spells added/come into play with later spells added. The only spell that's disappointing to me is 1,000 Needles, but it's just being true to Blue Mage. That spell falls out of use eventually in every game it's in, except in low level challenges.

BLU is balanced the way that it is so that you have to give it some thought. It comes with the laundry list of monsters and bosses where instant kills/flat damage spells work or they don't. Like the first boss in The Burn is susceptible to flat damage, so you can instantly kill it. If you've got a good handle on what the normal jobs are capable of, BLU is a total monster compared to them in every conceivable way. I like walking up to a boss and casting Tail Screw and seeing it do 3.9 million damage, and then it dies from my cane tinking on it for 7.

Oh, and as far as spam goes... it means no cooldown, which translate to powerful in a lot of ways. There's also just the fact that spam is kind of what we do in MMOs. Like, sure, a lot of jobs don't feel like they spam because they go through combos with different animations, but there's always a limit, isn't there? It always becomes spam in some form, and while I get why you don't like it, it's just the nature of long term fights and play. BLU is by far the furthest job away from spam. That slot belongs to normal job healers since 5.0.

Hmm, let me try it another way-

I agree that what is nearly on demand hallowed ground (nearly) is pretty strong. That said if I gave you an ability that increased your damage by 10,000% but you couldn't see your screen for the duration of 10 seconds (like it's a black screen, you see nothing you just hear buttons being pressed as you hit them).. Would that be fun? The spell is strong, it is not fun. I don't like using it, I actively dislike using it. Every time I'm approached with a situation that I should use it to win I'm thinking "maybe I'll just wait till I've got more powerful spells or something, god I hate that skill".

Certainly dealing HUGE, HUUUGGEEEEEE, damage (10K %) would be insanely epic. But I'm not going to enjoy it, the rest of what comes is just, obviously this is my imo, my very strong imo lol, is 'un'enjoyable. Using it is like being forced to watch an advertisement in the middle of your movie, an uninvited advertisement.

So like.. I loathe the stun. I joined the sith just to hate on this skill lol. If it costs more, if it gets a cooldown, whatever, if it gets a cousin that is equally strong but has some other balance (cd/cost, etc), just do it.. please lol. Please get this thing away from me XD (you could say "well don't use it then" but clearly there is content and situations where you've not really a choice, it is in some way thrust upon you if you're going to do the larger range of content).

Alternatively my suggestion for the skill was allow loom (or just any skill that specifically deals with movement), maybe some other abnormal skills (most are locked), and as you take certain thresholds of max hp damage you can ricochet back. This concept pulled directly from the boss mechanic itself (like when it goes diamond back and you fire your cannon at the turtle, it hits you back). Is it honestly so problematic to add even a little bit more friendliness to the spell? I'm not asking for it to become a 10k potency spell, and technically how I suggested it (max hp % = ricochet charge) means that if you use it on true nonsense it's not really helpful.

You don't need to convince me the spell can be strong, I agree. I just think it's also a bit like pulling teeth to use which I understand is a bit of a perspective but also at least from reading not a perspective I'm alone with. Which I counter with a stronger point of, if this was a job where tight balance was important maybe we need to be more careful.. but it's not.. so we should, I think, try to aim harder towards what is going to be enjoyable over what is logically balanced (and even then it's not like we have to make an extreme departure).

To your second point I agree that the kit becomes fleshed out later though it's more rigid than I would have hoped. That doesn't mean it's awful once you get that fuller kit just.. given so many abilities I would have hoped for an embrace of chaos (cheesy way to say it I guess). If you've played Hades, Diablo 3, Path of Exile, etc like games- it's the combinations of things that are not as formally fixed (like you'd be a fool to not have the primal spells, and then the buffs related to them, and then you gotta have some sustain, suddenly when you get rid of all the "you'd be foolish not to have X" realities you're left with only a few more abilities and those few abilities don't really change how you play by much, though I'm not saying those few are useless just the play by the point you get to those actual options is more like.. garnish than any game changing choice).

For the High Voltage, and spells like it that get left for dead- indeed would love to see something to help bring them forward (and indeed the spell is cool to watch, like even though it's basic Glower is just a little boy giggling experience for me lol). On the 1k Needles, in the previous post, suggested that perhaps you can maintain the value in use / potentially upgrade it (in the situation suggested it was via a passive system akin to FFVII materia/poe/FFX sphere grid (not static), where you can make combinations and effects akin to how FFXI did but without meaning you lose active spell slots). Obviously for me the spells that disappoint tend to be in the first wave lol.

Further on the "tends to be disappointing in the beginning"- I hear people say that.. but I think that's just ... ... bull chocobo feathers? Lol. I get that's how it had a history of, but why would you intentionally copy that aspect? "This job is famous for being a disappointment for a while, then suddenly being epic, and then being kind of disappointing again!". Yeah. Okay, don't copy that. What do you think of your job? Well it starts out sucky, but it gets fun later! ...."How about.. we don't start out sucky, and we stay fun the entire time?". It just reads to me like "but y tho?". Someone might move to an elevated speech of the fun of grinding out things for progressions and it's nice ot take that journey, but I would say certainly in those games where you get multiple things to play at once (a party of characters) and other examples you might think of there is a general overarching amount of fun ensured and instilled no matter how peculiar the rest of it might be. Here you're only one job doing one thing- making that intentionally disappointing I think is just on the "that's not acceptable" side of things, it's not like I get to do something else while doing something I Think is disappointing- I've just got to trudge through the muck to make it out to the other side. Even if you example a game where you might think of "trudging through the muck" like a dark souls or something, the experience itself is also fun, it's just happening to be punishing at the same time. I don't know how else to say I just don't buy that is a good idea lol. Of course, not everyone might agree so I'm not trying to speak as if it's written in stone fact but obviously my "imo" (as you seem to think the beginning was okay).

There is indeed some thought, and like I mentioned with the primal spells (the early ones) there was a cute sense of subtle balance in the simple spells. I don't think SE is dumb lol. But I don't appreciate the subtleness I guess, which doesn't read as I want instant death on everything. If anything I've been consistent on that- I don't want instant death being spammed all over the place, I don't even really want to use instant death in the first place to be honest (not that I hate that it exists, it is a novelty- I just don't think "oooh yay, I can instantly kill someone" is more exciting that "oh my god this changes my entire kit").

I wouldn't say farthest thing from spam (given looking at early stages, which include end levels until you get the right spells if you didn't get them in a group, compared to other jobs), but I would give you that healers hitting one damage button over and over and over and a few oGCD makes blue mage look better. Especially later when they get loads of damage oGCD and can still heal very well.

+1 for meme and friendlyness even though I'm clearly on the negative side